polymega

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jemismyname
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polymega

Post by jemismyname »

do y'all think that polymega was just planning to rip-off MISTer? because, that's what i think... there is no way that they put all that work into designing the cores, and then just scrapped it to go with emulation. Also, i think it's highly suspicious that when I interviewed the polymega rep at E3, he told me that it was using a Cyclone V for the hardware simulation and it was running linux for the system interface/overlay.

I do wish that a retail version of MISTer would exist, but i think it's super shady to just rip off an open source project and say you made it yourself...

What does this community think about the possibility of a retail version of MISTer?

(with proper credit and with proper payment to the people involved in designing the system and the cores?)

Would that make for a good kickstarter campaign?
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Re: polymega

Post by flain »

polymega is nothing but a product for uninformed people, everything about it is wrong
- silly kickstarter like goals
- broken promises (it's no longer FPGA)
- silly ideas (promise to run real cartridge and do hybrid emulation before checking if its actually possible)
- a cheaper RPI is better
- probably wont even ship

It smells of someone trying to raise money, take it all and run away

It doesn't even deserve a thread here in the MiSTer forum

and no they didn't copy MiSTer because back when they scammed everyone for money MiSTer wasn't even a thing
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Re: polymega

Post by Newsdee »

Marketing people poorly advised by underpaid engineers who bail out once they feel they can't trust the man at the helm.

Not everybody can be Steve Jobs to a Steve Wozniak.
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Re: polymega

Post by ReedSolomon »

jemismyname wrote:do y'all think that polymega was just planning to rip-off MISTer?
If they chose to use open source cores as the base of their product, as long as they contributed their changes and kept it open then more power to them. Sadly, I don't believe they're using FPGA nevermind anything MiSTer related.
there is no way that they put all that work into designing the cores, and then just scrapped it to go with emulation. Also, i think it's highly suspicious that when I interviewed the polymega rep at E3, he told me that it was using a Cyclone V for the hardware simulation and it was running linux for the system interface/overlay.
when was this?
I do wish that a retail version of MISTer would exist, but i think it's super shady to just rip off an open source project and say you made it yourself...
Well, they haven't actually released anything yet to my knowledge, so it's too early to comment on any shady business. But even if they did fork MiSTer as a base for their product they'd still have to do a lot of modification to achieve the product they want to sell.
What does this community think about the possibility of a retail version of MISTer?
it is an inevitable eventuality.
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Re: polymega

Post by Newsdee »

I'm no expert, but I'd think commercial product that replicates the DE10 plus expansion boards, and takes exactly the same Linux and core binaries as the original board (i.e. no code change) would comply with the OSS licenses?

Although why bother? Can't really compete with Terasic's production capacity. Maybe we should ask them to do it :D
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

ReedSolomon wrote:
If they chose to use open source cores as the base of their product, as long as they contributed their changes and kept it open then more power to them. Sadly, I don't believe they're using FPGA nevermind anything MiSTer related.


they were, but they stopped for some reason. i do believe that they were running an FPGA core. I spoke to them at length, and I couldn't believe that they would have been lying about the technical specs of their system. They weren't advertising that it was a Cyclone V, etc... i was grilling them for info, because i was very interested.
when was this?
Summer E3, 2018. I was working at the indiecade booth, and they were presenting at the indiecade booth, so i was helping them setup/breakdown. I was very interested in their product at the time, because it was very good quality and it seemed like they were really on top of their game... now i'm just sketched out by the company.

Well, they haven't actually released anything yet to my knowledge, so it's too early to comment on any shady business. But even if they did fork MiSTer as a base for their product they'd still have to do a lot of modification to achieve the product they want to sell.
yeah, they did a lot of modification, for sure, mostly to the UI, but it was not THAT much different from MISTer's UI. just a little prettier. I just can't believe they would take some code base and not give proper credit. this is basically the same thing that Retron did with the Retron 5. why? at least credit the actual creators, even if you aren't going to share in the revenue...
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

flain wrote:
and no they didn't copy MiSTer because back when they scammed everyone for money MiSTer wasn't even a thing
when did MISTer become a thing? there is something called MIST that came before, correct, and MISTer is a fork of that project?

(apologies for my ignorance, i'm a newb to this new-age retro FPGA game)
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Re: polymega

Post by flain »

There is a multi year thread running here on polymega http://atariage.com/forums/topic/261689-retroblox/ (it was initially retroblox). I feel sorry for those who put money in only for them to bait and switch.

MiSTer isn't really MIST they are two very separate projects
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Re: polymega

Post by theimporter »

Can't wait for someone receives and opens up this over-expensive raspberry pi so that we can all laugh at it.
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Re: polymega

Post by ReedSolomon »

jemismyname wrote: yeah, they did a lot of modification, for sure, mostly to the UI, but it was not THAT much different from MISTer's UI. just a little prettier. I just can't believe they would take some code base and not give proper credit. this is basically the same thing that Retron did with the Retron 5. why? at least credit the actual creators, even if you aren't going to share in the revenue...
Until they release the product they don't have to release any code IIRC. If they release a product based on open source/free software code then they'll open themselves up to lawsuits regardless.
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

yeah, the problem is, who is actually gonna hire a lawyer to sue? ripping off f/oss could be a calculated risk on their part, and it certainly bothers me if that actually turns out to be the case.

Like, i said, i talked at length with the people at their E3 booth last summer. one of the guys in particular seemed to be the lead programmer seemed to be very knowledgeable, but in retrospect, I feel like the only real info he gave me was with regards to interface and gfx filtering stuff. I just cannot for the life of me believe that this one guy programmed all these FPGA cores, himself, and then just tossed them aside like so much rubbish just to be able to support Sega Saturn in emulation.

It sounds so dubious to me.

At the same time, i hate to be one of those youtube nay-sayers who bashes every new console that comes along and calls it a "Caleco Chameleon" or an "Ouya"

(incidently, i actually quite liked the Ouya.. it's main problem was the convoluted development ecosystem... much more difficult to build for than Vanilla Android... and for no good reason)
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Re: polymega

Post by bitfan2011 »

the hate comments on their FB page are epic
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

Well, that's not surprising. I quit fb because hate is practically the only thing on it.

I am honestly sad that things are going this way for polymega. When i talked to the guy, he was already talking about cutting some corners, at the time he was planning to try to fit everything on a Cyclone IV instead of a Cyclone V when it came time for production just to save a few bucks.

I tried to encourage him to stick with their original plan and keep with the Cyclone V. And I tried to warn him that youtubers and facebookers are ruthless and that it's a tough market. He told me that his company was less beholden to all of that since they were privately funded... which turns out to not be entirely the case, it seems. looks like their corner-cutting is gonna cost them more than it saves in the long run

I think that polymega will fill a certain niche (people who want something better than a Retron 5 and easier to deal with than a Raspberry Pi), but i think they could have had a hit on their hands if they had just stuck to their guns. oh well.
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Re: polymega

Post by cacophony »

jemismyname wrote:.. i think they could have had a hit on their hands if they had just stuck to their guns. oh well.
Sticking to their guns would have meant "hybrid emulation", and the general consensus was that hybrid emulation was marketing BS that either wouldn't work or wouldn't provide any real benefit over pure software emulation. They probably realized this at some point prior to the preorder date when they removed the fpga from the hardware entirely.
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

i dunno, i'm pretty sure the guy wasn't lying to me. I would consider the de-10 nano to be a CPU/FPGA hybrid system... what else would you call it?

i'll bet my bottom bippy that if i had opened up the console they showed it would have been a de-10 board inside. they just prettied up the GUI with their gfx and added a couple of video scalers (which were ok...)

(i don't actually have a bottom bippy, tho)
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Re: polymega

Post by cacophony »

jemismyname wrote:i dunno, i'm pretty sure the guy wasn't lying to me. I would consider the de-10 nano to be a CPU/FPGA hybrid system... what else would you call it?
There are many posts about "hybrid emulation" in this thread on Atari Age:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/261689-retroblox/
You might have to register, but if you search the thread for "hybrid emulation" there's lots of good info.
jemismyname wrote: i'll bet my bottom bippy that if i had opened up the console they showed it would have been a de-10 board inside. they just prettied up the GUI with their gfx and added a couple of video scalers (which were ok...)
Not sure that would make sense given that they 1. never got the FPGA tech working AFAIK and 2. the parts cost for the de10-nano far exceed the Polymega price
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Re: polymega

Post by jemismyname »

well, they just had one demo model. It's not like they went into production with them. So, i mean, they were only really out $120 for a demo model..

The guy said to me that the thing i was playing was a cyclone V and the menus and all that were linux running on ARM. I just think that all the base code was probably ripped off and they didn't have the skill to get it to production level. If that's not the case, then they are just complete liars.

I'll check out the atari age thing, tho.
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