USB Hub board

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, spiny, Greenious, Sorgelig, Moderator Team

Locked
MysteryM
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:45 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by MysteryM »

Nat wrote:
I did have one question however, what sizes are resistors R4 to R11? the schematic indicates that they should 510, can I assume that I've read it right and they are 510 ohm resistors?
Yes that is correct, they are 510 Ohm resistors, package size is 0805.
Perfect thank you.

One last question, should I worry about what the forward voltage/forward current is for the leds or can I stick in any 0805 leds?

Pupil
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:10 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Pupil »

I finished assembling the board and everything works. But I'm wondering if it's ok to connect 5V power straight from the DC port of the DE10 nano to the USB Hub board. I'm using V1.2 USB Hub so they are aligned nicely to be able to do that. Is the 20W adapter enough to power the DE10 nano, the usb hub and the IO board? Or is it recommended to to use a separate power supply for the USB hub?

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

Neither I/O board nor USB Hub consume anything measurable.

Pupil
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:10 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Pupil »

thanks!

So everything is built and it's all working, except the usb hub won't establish connection with MiSTer. I tested the hub with my PC and tested all 7 ports and it connects fine. Is the some way to initialize the otg port?

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

No special initialization is required.
Make sure USB hub gets the power.

Pupil
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:10 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Pupil »

it is getting power, and it works when I connect the usb hub to PC once I plug it in. It just doesn't work when I connect it to DE 10 micro USB port. I left VBus disconnected on J2 because schematics says DNI by default. Right now I have power connected to the DE 10 nano and I have that also connected to the USB hub. I am using it connected to the pc and right now my keyboard is plugged into that and I'm typing this using it.

EDIT: After looking around on the forum, It seems like I might be using the wrong kind of cable. It seems I need OTG cable. I'll try that and see if it works.

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

ID pin of microUSB (de10) should be grounded to switch it to host mode.

Pupil
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:10 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Pupil »

ID Pin is grounded from the USB Hub side. I tested it, and when connected, ID pin on DE 10 has continuity to ground so it should be okay. I'm not sure what the problem is but I'm going to try with a different cable tonight.

UPDATE:
I changed the cable and the USB hub is working fine now.

Thank you

pseudobacon
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:01 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by pseudobacon »

If we're using the USB bracket, it's possible to supply the USB Hub board with power using the the pins on P2. In version 2.1 there is optional U2a and U2b. Would implementing this prevent the issue of over current when drawing power from the pins on P2, or is it still recommended to go with external power i.e. the DC power jack, in which you could use a splitter cable between the DE10 and hub board, or a second power supply connected to one of the USB power only ports?

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

You still need to supply external power. Protection IC is mostly used for USB power cycle to help some USB devices to re-initialize upon reset. Protection IC doesn't allow to draw more power from microUSB connector as it's anyway limited by de10 circuit.

dshadoff
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:07 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by dshadoff »

I'm building a USB Hub 2.1, and I've just read the whole thread, and reviewed the PDF.
I'm planning to use the 'L' bracket, as this seems to be the most recent recommended route.

My question is about power supply - the 'L' bracket seems to connect power via P2, sourcing it from the micro-USB on the Nano board, but from the early part of the thread, supplying power from the Nano's micro-USB has not been the recommended approach. Why would it be recommended now ?

Or, is it recommended to avoid connecting power via P2, and instead use a split DC jack (or perhaps something else better than that) ?

The discussion has been a bit confusing to follow; perhaps the older threads made more sense at the time because of related discussion happening in other threads at the same time.

Just wondering about current situation.

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

L bracket doesn't draw the power from micro-USB. It only senses the power.

dshadoff
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:07 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by dshadoff »

Sorgelig wrote:L bracket doesn't draw the power from micro-USB. It only senses the power.
So then, populate P2 and P1, as well as supply DC elsewhere (such as a Y-split DC barrel plug). Yes ?

nagus
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 9:05 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by nagus »

dshadoff wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:L bracket doesn't draw the power from micro-USB. It only senses the power.
So then, populate P2 and P1, as well as supply DC elsewhere (such as a Y-split DC barrel plug). Yes ?
Not sure if this is recommended but I use a Y-split DC barrel plug with a 5volt 6amp power supply. Unfortunately, I don't have a URL link for that power supply. But have also had luck using a Y-split with 5volt 4amp power supply in the past ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SMQMVHC ). Both were able to power an Edimax wifi USB dongle and an 8bitdo USB dongle as well as a couple Retroflag controllers at the same time.

Splatura
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:57 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Splatura »

Greetings everyone,

Firstly, a huge thanks to the team for the development and providing this project to the community. I'm new to the MiSTer scene and thoroughly enjoying it so far.

I'm reaching out for some help please as I've exhausted my avenues of investigation and diagnostics.
I've ordered some USB Hub v2.1 from JLCPCB and they have arrived no issue. On inspection all seem to check out OK. I've soldered up as per the schematic as well as referencing https://ezcontents.org/mister-usb-hub-21-smd-soldering to ensure I was correct.

I apply 5V through the barrel jack and I can confirm voltage is running to the FE2.1. When I connect the USB hub to my PC (through the Micro USB port) the PC recognises a Generic USB Hub (as USB\VID_1A40&PID_0201). LED 8 illuminates briefly when the USB is connected to the PC then turns off.

I get no feedback at all from plugging in USB devices (which I have tested separately and work). None of LED1-7 illuminates at all (if a device is plugged in or not) and there's no recognition from the PC that a device has been plugged in.

I've seen reference from Heppaz http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p388663 and tried a number of 5v power sources (including the 5V, 2A that came with my DE-10) without success.

I'm struggling to understand what I've done wrong here. I've triple-checked all the passives are correct, I cannot find any solder bridges on the FE2.1 (or anywhere else). Unfortunately I don't have an oscilloscope to dive deep but I'm hoping someone may have some inspiration that may help me troubleshoot this issue.
2020-01-16 21.06.49 -3.jpg
Thanks in advance.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

It's unclear did you solder VBUS control circuit or not. If not, then it should be properly bypassed by 0 ohm resistor/jumper. Check if 5V is present on downstream USB connectors.

Splatura
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:57 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Splatura »

Sorgelig wrote:It's unclear did you solder VBUS control circuit or not. If not, then it should be properly bypassed by 0 ohm resistor/jumper. Check if 5V is present on downstream USB connectors.
Thanks Sorgelig for the feedback. I’ve installed the NCP380LSNAJAAT1G to U2a and soldered as per the instructions. From what I can tell it’s correct (I’ll take a photo tomorrow when I’m home). I had measured 5v to each of the USB ports so that seemed ok from my understanding. From memory it was 3.3v to the FE2.1 chip at the right places.

Would it be worth removing the NCP380LSNAJAAT1, bridge JP1 & R13 and disable VBUS control?

RemoteFlyer
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:46 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by RemoteFlyer »

Hi. I set myself a challenge to build my own Mister IO and usb hub boards from blank pcbs and succeeded. I have always wanted to try SMD soldering and have learned a lot about soldering SMD's from doing this. I had a problem sourcing a USB fe2.1 hub IC in the UK so decided try the MAX LINEAR XR22417CV48TR-F USB 2.0 7-Port Hub instead from mouser. It works as a direct replacement without any changes to the board. Just wanted to share that. Cheers for the Mister cores and boards, they're awesome.

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

RemoteFlyer wrote:Hi. I set myself a challenge to build my own Mister IO and usb hub boards from blank pcbs and succeeded. I have always wanted to try SMD soldering and have learned a lot about soldering SMD's from doing this. I had a problem sourcing a USB fe2.1 hub IC in the UK so decided try the MAX LINEAR XR22417CV48TR-F USB 2.0 7-Port Hub instead from mouser. It works as a direct replacement without any changes to the board. Just wanted to share that. Cheers for the Mister cores and boards, they're awesome.
Thanks for info! I never heard about XR22417. Good, we have 2 compatible chips now.

decayedcell
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:33 am

Re: USB Hub board

Post by decayedcell »

So I was reading up on the NCP380 datasheet, and it says on page 18:
Due to internal power dissipation capability, a maximum of 2.4 A typical can be set for the uDFN package if thermal consideration are respected. For the TSOP6 version 1.2 A is the maximum recommended value because the part could enter in thermal shutdown mode before constant current regulation mode
This is also noted in your PDF schematic. But R12 has been specified for 5.6K, and according to the current limit table on page 17 that should result in a target OCP of 2.48 amps. Should we be changing this to 21k for a target OCP of 1.18 amps if we are installing the TSOP6 version (NCP380LSNAJAAT1G)?

As a side note I also found AP2552 which is available also in TSOP6 (AP2552W6-7) and uDFN6 (AP2552FDC-7), has the active enable level and does not appear to have the same thermal limitation (according to the datasheet on page 10).

I've ordered a few of these to see if they will work in the USB hub board as a drop in replacement. I've calculated that the ILIM resistor should be 9.1K to achieve 2.44 amps current limit, but 10k which is probably a lot more common should give 2.24 amps which is pretty close.

Splatura
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:57 pm

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Splatura »

Splatura wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:It's unclear did you solder VBUS control circuit or not. If not, then it should be properly bypassed by 0 ohm resistor/jumper. Check if 5V is present on downstream USB connectors.
Thanks Sorgelig for the feedback. I’ve installed the NCP380LSNAJAAT1G to U2a and soldered as per the instructions. From what I can tell it’s correct (I’ll take a photo tomorrow when I’m home). I had measured 5v to each of the USB ports so that seemed ok from my understanding. From memory it was 3.3v to the FE2.1 chip at the right places.

Would it be worth removing the NCP380LSNAJAAT1, bridge JP1 & R13 and disable VBUS control?
Good news! I’ve removed the NCP380LSNAJAAT1 and related passives and I have success! I’m not sure what the issue was but I’ll diagnose that later. I now have a functioning USB hub.

Thanks for the support. I look forward to playing further.

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

decayedcell wrote:But R12 has been specified for 5.6K, and according to the current limit table on page 17 that should result in a target OCP of 2.48 amps. Should we be changing this to 21k for a target OCP of 1.18 amps if we are installing the TSOP6 version (NCP380LSNAJAAT1G)?
It's up to you which value to use. R12 is set for maximum current while specific chip may shutdown the power earlier due to thermal limit. So basically it's up to used chip.
decayedcell wrote:As a side note I also found AP2552 which is available also in TSOP6 (AP2552W6-7) and uDFN6 (AP2552FDC-7), has the active enable level and does not appear to have the same thermal limitation (according to the datasheet on page 10).
Looks like drop-in replacement. There is no magic and i believe it also have thermal limit. uDFN uses PCB as a passive cooler - that's why it can keep higher current.

venice1200
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: USB Hub board

Post by venice1200 »

Hi@all,
at first many many thanks to all the developers for this really cool project and the possibility to jump 36 years back to my beloved C64 [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_01.gif].

I building the v2.1 Hub for myself and my plan is to power the board using J1 (DC Socket) and USB using J2 (Micro USB) without VBUS Control.

I am using this howto for help..
Splatura wrote: ...the schematic as well as referencing https://ezcontents.org/mister-usb-hub-21-smd-soldering
..but there is written about to solder R1a instead of R1.
ezcontents.org wrote:This is needed, otherwise you will be drawing current directly from USB and not the power supply.
Do I really need to solder R1a if J1 and J2 are used as R1a is marked with DNI.

Many thanks...

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6348
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: USB Hub board

Post by Sorgelig »

venice1200 wrote:This is needed, otherwise you will be drawing current directly from USB and not the power supply.
This is wrong! USB Hub doesn't draw the power through this resistor. It's only for SENSING the power, so the hub's chip will aware of it.
Basically you can solder either R1 or R1a. Probably result will be the same as without VBUS control hub cannot switch the power on/off anyway.

venice1200
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: USB Hub board

Post by venice1200 »

Sorgelig wrote:It's only for SENSING the power, so the hub's chip will aware of it.
Basically you can solder either R1 or R1a.
Probably result will be the same as without VBUS control hub cannot switch the power on/off anyway.
Understood, many thanks :D

Locked

Return to “MiSTer”