SDRAM board

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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Sorgelig
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

The only difference with my 6TIN is dataecode. mine are 1829.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Sorgelig wrote:The only difference with my 6TIN is dataecode. mine are 1829.
The weird thing is about this batch of chips is if you run memtest above 80/90mhz the memtest core just gives massive error numbers like you are trying to run a normal chip at 167mhz. I've even tried other de10's and its still the same problem. I've never had anything like this with any sdram chips previously and Mouser haven't been overly helpful with any support and have only been quick in stating that they won't give me a refund. My only option to get any refund seems to be a credit card claim unless anyone knows anything different.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

Won't surprise if it's remarked MT48 chip.
For most applications no one will notice the difference. Just higher power consumption which may be not so noticeable if board has many different chips.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Sorgelig wrote:Won't surprise if it's remarked MT48 chip.
For most applications no one will notice the difference. Just higher power consumption which may be not so noticeable if board has many different chips.

latest reply from mouser below. I'm not sure what they mean by register configuration?


Please see the response from the supplier below to our technical team:



"Different batches, cannot working stable, we are also confused for this.



Some suggestions as follow.



1).For the power supply filter, please follow my previous email.

It may be not the major factor for this issue, but it is better to change.



2).Could you ask customer to send their PCBA with the failure chip to us

for further analysis, such SI test ?



3).Could you ask customer to send us the register configuration for

recheck?"

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by witchmaster »

TWINKYTWONKA wrote:Please see the response from the supplier below to our technical team:



"Different batches, cannot working stable, we are also confused for this.



Some suggestions as follow.



1).For the power supply filter, please follow my previous email.

It may be not the major factor for this issue, but it is better to change.



2).Could you ask customer to send their PCBA with the failure chip to us

for further analysis, such SI test ?



3).Could you ask customer to send us the register configuration for

recheck?"
Did Mouser reply to you in broken English? Did you buy your memory chips from a Mouser clone site? :)

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

witchmaster wrote:
TWINKYTWONKA wrote:Please see the response from the supplier below to our technical team:



"Different batches, cannot working stable, we are also confused for this.



Some suggestions as follow.



1).For the power supply filter, please follow my previous email.

It may be not the major factor for this issue, but it is better to change.



2).Could you ask customer to send their PCBA with the failure chip to us

for further analysis, such SI test ?



3).Could you ask customer to send us the register configuration for

recheck?"
Did Mouser reply to you in broken English? Did you buy your memory chips from a Mouser clone site? :)

lol you would think so wouldn't you :D. No this is the genuine mouser site which i have probably spend thousands of £ over the years.
it would appear that all support is done in chinglish and the person that passes the message on to me does not see any problem with it whatsoever.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Nat »

Looking at the close up pictures, the laser etching does not look as I would expect on these chips, especially compared to the batches I have been supplied with via Digi-Key. However this may be down to the quality of picture taken it's hard to tell.
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Nat wrote:Looking at the close up pictures, the laser etching does not look as I would expect on these chips, especially compared to the batches I have been supplied with via Digi-Key. However this may be down to the quality of picture taken it's hard to tell.

I don't have another 6 tin chip here but i do have a 7tcn and they are different in their markings. For example, the dot indicating pin one on these dodgy 6tin chips is bigger than the 7tcn, more shallow and identical to a winbond 32 mb chip. The reverse of the chips also differs in their id marking. The 7tcn has a clear laser marked id in two of the three circles on the rear. with two digit numbers in each circle. The 6 tin chip has a 0 to 9 dial with an arrow as you would get on a plastic moulding. If anyone has a genuine 6tin chip at hand and could let me know what a genuine 6tin chip looks like i'd appreciate it


I'll add some pictures a bit later

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

TWINKYTWONKA wrote:
Nat wrote:Looking at the close up pictures, the laser etching does not look as I would expect on these chips, especially compared to the batches I have been supplied with via Digi-Key. However this may be down to the quality of picture taken it's hard to tell.

I don't have a genuine 6 tin chip here but i do have a 7tcn and the dodgy 6tin chips. The 7ctn chips they are different in their markings. For example, the dot indicating pin one on these dodgy 6tin chips is bigger than the 7tcn, more shallow and identical to a winbond 32 mb chip. The reverse of the chips also differs in their id marking. The 7tcn has a clear laser marked id in two of the three circles on the rear with two digits in each circle. The 6 tin chip has a 0 to 9 dial with an arrow as you would get on a plastic moulding. Furthermore, the chip surface of the 6tin has a different texture to the 7tcn at least under my £30 microscope. I'll take them to work monday and use some specialist equipment to get a better look. If anyone has a genuine 6tin chip at hand and could let me know what a genuine 6tin chip looks like i'd appreciate it.


I'll add some pictures a bit later

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Nat »

I have attached a couple of pictures from a batch I have.

Front:
Image

Rear:
Image

Just right click on the image to open in a new window at full resolution, as I think the forum software is scaling down the images.
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

Nat wrote:I have attached a couple of pictures from a batch I have.

Front:
Image

Rear:
Image

Just right click on the image to open in a new window at full resolution, as I think the forum software is scaling down the images.
mine 6tin from the same batch.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Nat wrote:I have attached a couple of pictures from a batch I have.

Front:
Image

Rear:
Image

Just right click on the image to open in a new window at full resolution, as I think the forum software is scaling down the images.
The more i look at these chips the more i think sorgelig was correct in that there may some counterfeits doing the rounds. Obviously, this would explain a lot of the questions on this thread about not being able to get the chips to clock to a sufficient speed.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d2txd ... v5cRjfPPzM

If you don't mind i copied your pictures into the shared folder

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

TWINKYTWONKA wrote:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d2txd ... v5cRjfPPzM
Your 6TIN looks the same as WINBOND chip if judge by case caveats.
I think the one who re-marked the chips thought there is no difference as long as chip is 64MB.. But for MiSTer it really makes the difference.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Sorgelig wrote:
TWINKYTWONKA wrote:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d2txd ... v5cRjfPPzM
Your 6TIN looks the same as WINBOND chip if judge by case caveats.
I think the one who re-marked the chips thought there is no difference as long as chip is 64MB.. But for MiSTer it really makes the difference.

I think the fact that a massive supplier such as Mouser has got these in their supply line is certainly a concern for all of us. Especially as once you open the bag to look at the chips they refuse any returns. Their support is just awful and they have now stopped replying to emails.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by InfecteD »

Just thought i'd add a picture of the chips i ordered from Mouser as well:

Image

Image

Highest i got the 128MB board running was 80mhz

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

InfecteD wrote:Highest i got the 128MB board running was 80mhz
and they are from the same fake batch according to pic.

It's better not to buy 6TIN from Mouser! 7TIN/7TCN work well. You don't have to stick to 6TIN.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

Sorgelig wrote:
InfecteD wrote:Highest i got the 128MB board running was 80mhz
and they are from the same fake batch according to pic.

It's better not to buy 6TIN from Mouser! 7TIN/7TCN work well. You don't have to stick to 6TIN.
Excellent point and one that should be on the front page in very large letters.

There are now three people on this board who have purchased these chips from mouser. If anyone else has purchased these chips then please contact me via pm and we can join forces to get refunds because if you contact mouser on your own , as i have, they will just say that it is your fault and they cant give refunds, send you a load of gibberish from support and then stop replying to you. I have taken the matter up with my credit card company and if we share info we can get refunds and move on.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by jft »

FYI and FWIW, I purchased my 6TIN ICs from Mouser in the US in September and had no issue. The date code is different, but I had zero issues with the very few 128s I built.
++IMG_0070ss2.JPG
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

jft wrote:FYI and FWIW, I purchased my 6TIN ICs from Mouser in the US in September and had no issue. The date code is different, but I had zero issues with the very few 128s I built.

++IMG_0070ss2.JPG
I've purchased numerous batches of these chips from mouser before so its not that all batches are bad but this one definitely is.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by ManuFerHi »

This batch is defective DATECODE 1822, Mouser did not want to return even they told me that that datecode they do not have in their warehouse and that they had not supplied it. At the end of several days I threatened with legal channels and finally the amount has been refunded (40 memorys, 525€)
Beware of Mouser, do not buy large quantities.
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by Sorgelig »

ManuFerHi wrote:This batch is defective DATECODE 1822, Mouser did not want to return even they told me that that datecode they do not have in their warehouse and that they had not supplied it. At the end of several days I threatened with legal channels and finally the amount has been refunded (40 memorys, 525€)
Beware of Mouser, do not buy large quantities.
That's awful behaviour from mouser!
Probably that's why they don't want to accept PayPal from international buyers.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

ManuFerHi wrote:This batch is defective DATECODE 1822, Mouser did not want to return even they told me that that datecode they do not have in their warehouse and that they had not supplied it. At the end of several days I threatened with legal channels and finally the amount has been refunded (40 memorys, 525€)
Beware of Mouser, do not buy large quantities.

Thanks to ManuFerHi i have managed to get a refund from Mouser. For other people if you check the date code on your 6tin chip and the packing note you will notice that in the case of dodgy chips the date code differs. My dodgy chips have a date code of 1822 but the receipt states the date code on these chips 1833 . Obviously this is fraudulent.

Start an online chat on the Mouser website and state these facts and they cave in pretty quick. The datecode is the key.

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by JimDrew »

I have 1822 date code chips from Digikey and they work fine. My mass produced boards have a 1844 date code.
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Re: SDRAM board

Post by TWINKYTWONKA »

JimDrew wrote:I have 1822 date code chips from Digikey and they work fine. My mass produced boards have a 1844 date code.
on the reverse of the chip do they Taiwan written in one of the recessed discs?

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Re: SDRAM board

Post by JimDrew »

I am not sure. i would have to desolder a chip in order to check.
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