Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

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desUBIKado
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by desUBIKado »

No, I also use ZX-Uno.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by squid4 »

slingshot wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:08 pm Actually this copy-pasting is boring and ridiculous.
Oops! I just copied and pasted your MiST BBC sound fixes slingshot to the MiSTer. :lol:
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by Newsdee »

What do you think of SiDi? It seems to be a straight port of MiST into a cheaper device. The firmware seems to be the same too. Are there any caveats other than the cores needing a recompile?

I find it hard to recommend a MiST at its current price, except for somebody who would want and use MIDI ports. SiDi on the other hand looks more accessible.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by DrOG »

SiDi doesn't have DB-9 joyports. I you can live without these, it can be an alternative. For me DB-9 joy is a must...
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by slingshot »

As you have to recompile the cores, that's a pity that it didn't get some upgrades. Also some features are missing. But I understand that these would make it more expensive.

For a real MiST-next, I would think about these extra features:
- bigger FPGA (55k LE at least)
- 512 Mbit SDRAM
- Another SDRAM chip (maybe just a socket for a DDR2 laptop RAM module? They're still available and cheap)
- Digital outputs (even only digital output - then one can choose to attach a DAC for VGA, or a digital scaler for HDMI)
- Upgraded ARM
- More developers involved

Or just look into Replay2 - I fear there is no SDRAM on it, thus making ports complicated.

However I don't see the urgency, still a lot of things can be done on MiST. There won't be GBA, MegaCD, ao486, NeoGeo, but there are room for some new cores or improving existing ones.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by Thenesis »

slingshot wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:21 pm For a real MiST-next, I would think about these extra features:
- bigger FPGA (55k LE at least)
- 512 Mbit SDRAM
- Another SDRAM chip (maybe just a socket for a DDR2 laptop RAM module? They're still available and cheap)
- Digital outputs (even only digital output - then one can choose to attach a DAC for VGA, or a digital scaler for HDMI)
- Upgraded ARM
- More developers involved
Intel Max 10 supports DDR3, but only with BGA packages according to https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/p ... 10_emi.pdf.

Anyway adding another SDRAM chip can only be done with BGA packages since there is not enough available pins with TQFP (unless both DDR3 and SDRAM use the same pins, but they could not be used at the same time). The 484 pins package is at a reasonable price.

This means that it would be harder to solder at home. As far as I know, TQFP was a constraint of the Mist, to make it more DIY-friendly. But this is the only way to have a more powerful Mist.

Also with so many pins available it would be great to add a 512 KB SRAM chip (they are cheap) to use as a L2 cache or for main memory of some simple systems.

Max 10 devices go up to 50000 LEs, this is enough for a lot of projects.

Separate RTCs are cheap but they are also often built-in inside ARM MCUs. So if the MCU has an upgrade, a model with a RTC included would be a good idea.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by slingshot »

Thenesis wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:35 am
Intel Max 10 supports DDR3, but only with BGA packages according to https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/p ... 10_emi.pdf.

Anyway adding another SDRAM chip can only be done with BGA packages since there is not enough available pins with TQFP (unless both DDR3 and SDRAM use the same pins, but they could not be used at the same time). The 484 pins package is at a reasonable price.

This means that it would be harder to solder at home. As far as I know, TQFP was a constraint of the Mist, to make it more DIY-friendly. But this is the only way to have a more powerful Mist.

Also with so many pins available it would be great to add a 512 KB SRAM chip (they are cheap) to use as a L2 cache or for main memory of some simple systems.
I think adding a bigger FPGA or more RAM chips would require BGA anyway, which yeah, sucks. E.g. Cyclone 10 with 55k LE only available in BGA packages (but this has no official DDR2 support). Cyclone V, MAX 10 ditto.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by Thenesis »

slingshot wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:11 am I think adding a bigger FPGA or more RAM chips would require BGA anyway, which yeah, sucks. E.g. Cyclone 10 with 55k LE only available in BGA packages (but this has no official DDR2 support). Cyclone V, MAX 10 ditto.
Cyclone 10 supports DDR3 only with the GX family (which supports also DVI/HDMI), not with the LP family which has less supported memory types (but are cheaper) than Cyclone III and IV. Cyclone 10 GX fpgas have hard DDR3 controllers, they should be much easier to use than soft ones (and they don't use LEs). Also the GX have more memory per block (20 kbits) and have built-in floating-point support. They are thus very good to create CPUs with a fast fpu and "large" L1 caches. The lowest cost model (10CX085YU484E6G with 85000 LEs) is priced above 80 euros: https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Int ... kCdw%3D%3D.

Thus, at a commercial price, it would make a Mist at a price above 350 euros with a regular margin. If no margin is taken (community funded project) then the build cost could be something like 120 euros (but I'm not sure, I'm a beginner for hardware cost estimation).
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by slingshot »

Thenesis wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm
The lowest cost model (10CX085YU484E6G with 85000 LEs) is priced above 80 euros: https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Int ... kCdw%3D%3D.

Thus, at a commercial price, it would make a Mist at a price above 350 euros with a regular margin. If no margin is taken (community funded project) then the build cost could be something like 120 euros (but I'm not sure, I'm a beginner for hardware cost estimation).
Yeah, that looks like a great chip to use. I'm not sure how the final product's price would be affected, maybe it could be lower than 300 EURs. I'm sure it would be a great product, but how commercially feasible - I don't know.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by Thenesis »

slingshot wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:00 pm Yeah, that looks like a great chip to use. I'm not sure how the final product's price would be affected, maybe it could be lower than 300 EURs. I'm sure it would be a great product, but how commercially feasible - I don't know.
Yes, I think also any price above 250 euros is too much for this kind of project. Most people who could have been interested would hesitate a lot above this point. Thus it has to be at least partially community funded to exist.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by jotego »

Newsdee wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:48 am What do you think of SiDi? It seems to be a straight port of MiST into a cheaper device. The firmware seems to be the same too. Are there any caveats other than the cores needing a recompile?

I find it hard to recommend a MiST at its current price, except for somebody who would want and use MIDI ports. SiDi on the other hand looks more accessible.
I find SiDi amazing for the price tag.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by goran »

MiST user. I have couple of old computers but their MiST cores that I use are (near) perfect. I don't care much about MiSTer. Don't need the hassle with the kit, nor the exclusive cores, nor the attitude.
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Re: Do you still use a MiST exclusively?

Post by Chris23235 »

I have both, the MiST is hooked up to my Commodore CRT and I use it for all 8 and 16 Bit computer/console simulation, while the MiSTer is on my HDMI TV used for everything that is not on the MiST like 486, NeoGeo or PC-Engine CD. I am very happy with my MiST on the CRT.
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