MiST in 2020

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darwinmac
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

eeun and 8bitguy1,

Thanks so much for your comments. It sounds like I can get it to work with just VGA. My TV that I use for my XEGS doesn’t have a VGA input, but I can always buy a monitor if a VGA to HDMI converter doesn’t work.

My limiting factor is space more than my budget for a VGA monitor.

Bob C
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by theimann »

Hi Bob,

I've been using a cheap VGA/HDMI converter with my MIST and TV and it works great across all resolutions (low/med/hi). From my experience you might have to try out a few ones before you find one that works well. There are also some pointers in this and other forums.

For me this one worked best:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01LZW7Q3V

You might be able to get it from aliexpress.com once it's available again.

Cheers
Tom
Atari 520ST | Atari 1040ST | Atari Mega 1 | Atari 1040STE | Atari MegaSTE | Atari TT 030 | Atari Falcon 030
darwinmac
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

Based on your Amazon link, I thought this product might work since it is from the same company.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K4W62R4/re ... 9EbTSGPKMM

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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by theimann »

I think they got the manufacturer wrong on the page I linked. The pic (and my device) says Cablor.
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darwinmac
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

theimann wrote: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:31 am I think they got the manufacturer wrong on the page I linked. The pic (and my device) says Cablor.
Ok, thanks.

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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by Eero Tamminen »

darwinmac wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:36 pm I agree that it is in active development. However, as someone looking to just play a few games, I found EmuTOS to be a bit slower and have some compatibility problems in the past.

I am concerned that developers of old games used undocumented features or locations with their games. I admit that I haven’t tried it in a while (though I usually download each new release).
Could you try latest EmuTOS snapshot and report where it's slower than Atari TOS?

E.g. in disk operations (especially bootup), I've found it to be noticeably faster. VDI / line-A text drawing is somewhat slower than with Atari TOS, but that should be relevant mainly just for text-only games. I think rest should be close enough to Atari TOS speed (sometimes bit faster, sometime bit slower) that one can't notice the difference without a test specifically designed to measure performance of a given feature.

There are games that rely on undocumented, TOS version specific things, which are documented in:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/emuto ... atible.txt

Large (sub)set of working games are documented with Hatari:
https://git.tuxfamily.org/hatari/hatari ... emutos.txt

While original Atari TOS can be better for old floppy-only games for compatibility reasons, I think EmuTOS is much preferable for things that can be run from hard disk.
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

Eero,

Fair enough. I do not know when I will have time in the next month or so, but I am willing to look at the latest EmuTOS again.

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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by czietz »

Eero Tamminen wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:11 pm I've found it to be noticeably faster. VDI / line-A text drawing is somewhat slower than with Atari TOS,
Copying from a post on the EmuTOS Facebook page:

"It's often repeated but nevertheless it's a misconception: EmuTOS's VDI (graphics routines) is *not* much slower than Atari TOS's VDI!
There has been a lot of progress over the years in EmuTOS. While there might be areas that are a bit slower, there also are areas where EmuTOS is actually faster!
In the Gembench screenshot "Reference" is Atari TOS 2.06, while "System" is current EmuTOS 256k on the same machine. (Note that EmuTOS is wrongly recognized by GB6 as TOS 2.06.)
The numbers (EmuTOS compared to TOS 2.06) speak for themselves."
emutos_vdi.png
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Eero Tamminen
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by Eero Tamminen »

czietz wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:57 am
Eero Tamminen wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:11 pm I've found it to be noticeably faster. VDI / line-A text drawing is somewhat slower than with Atari TOS,
...
The numbers (EmuTOS compared to TOS 2.06) speak for themselves.
Right, with ST EmuTOS is about same perf [1]. Looking at GemBench results and 2019 mails, text perf gap is only with blitter (i.e. STE or Mega ST/STE). TOS 1.62 / 2.06 can accelerate text output 2x with blitter, but EmuTOS text rendering doesn't (yet) take advantage of blitter.

[1] Without blitter HW, the largest gap is 6% for VDI graphics. I think that was due to things like circle drawing etc (?) which aren't relevant to games, nor used by most of the GEM applications.
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

I have three more MiST-related questions:

1. What is the size of the MiST in the metal case? I assume the clear case is the same size, but I do not know. I am hoping to put the MiST underneath a monitor stand, but still have the monitor at a comfortable height.

2. Are any (or all) of the USB ports powered? The VGA to HDMI converter that I purchased uses USB as the power source.

3. What are the differences between the 1.3 and 1.4 versions of the MiST board?

I sent two of the questions to Lotharek, but I have not received a reply.

Bob C
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by slingshot »

darwinmac wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:46 pm I have three more MiST-related questions:

1. What is the size of the MiST in the metal case? I assume the clear case is the same size, but I do not know. I am hoping to put the MiST underneath a monitor stand, but still have the monitor at a comfortable height.
It's about 45mm high.
2. Are any (or all) of the USB ports powered? The VGA to HDMI converter that I purchased uses USB as the power source.
Yes
3. What are the differences between the 1.3 and 1.4 versions of the MiST board?
I think it's just a new batch.
darwinmac
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

Slingshot,

Thanks for the quick replies. 45mm is thinner than I expected. That would easily work underneath a monitor stand.

Thanks to your hard work on the MiSTery core, I hope to buy the MiST soon. Since it is unavailable in the US (Amiga on the Lake -seems to sell Lotharek’s items in the US), I will probably end up paying the high cost of FedEx shipping since I do not think the lower cost Polish Post will be available any time soon.

Bob C
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by ijor »

darwinmac wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:59 pm Thanks to your hard work on the MiSTery core, I hope to buy the MiST soon. Since it is unavailable in the US (Amiga on the Lake -seems to sell Lotharek’s items in the US), I will probably end up paying the high cost of FedEx shipping since I do not think the lower cost Polish Post will be available any time soon.
I know this is a MiST forum, but ...

Do you plan to connect any MIDI devices, or old school joysticks? Because otherwise, honestly, you might consider getting a MiSTer instead. I don't want to start the debate which one is better. But seems that for your specific case it might be a better and cheaper solution.
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Re: MiST in 2020

Post by darwinmac »

ijor wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:57 pm
Do you plan to connect any MIDI devices, or old school joysticks? Because otherwise, honestly, you might consider getting a MiSTer instead. I don't want to start the debate which one is better. But seems that for your specific case it might be a better and cheaper solution.
Yes, I plan on using a CX-40 (rebuilt by Best Electronics in the US) for my gaming. To me, using an old school joystick is an important part of the experience. I am aware of MiSTer. However, from what I have seen, that is much more of a kit. In addition, I feel the MiSTery core (which builds on your work in FXCast) will be updated more frequently. Sorgelig has ported the core to MiSTer but, since he is not familiar or interested in the ST, I fear the core will not be updated when incompatibilities occur.

Once I added up the cost to get a pre-built MiSTer, it wasn’t much less expensive than the MiST.

Bob C
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