MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

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MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Trying to sort if my Coleco controllers work or not.

So, on the MIST, I'm testing two Coleco controllers I opened and cleaned (and glued down a loose wire), and the directional works like a charm now, as does the left fire button. Prior AND POST cleaning, the right fire button does not register nor do either controller's numberpad... not on any core, especially on the most needed- ColecoVision core.

Other than the MIST, I don't have an original Coleco to test on. I do have MANY classic controller-to-USB adapters and tried them on a Sega Genesis one in Win7, as my Sega/Atari ones have limited button test expectancy by comparison. I just get direction and fire button one on both. Are Coleco controllers supposed to fully work on the MIST/cores controller ports? If I sprung for some specific ColecoVision to USB adapter, might it work fully then?

I can still use them on most early cors/games only requiring direction and 0-1 fire button, but man it would be sweet to have the keypad working for the feel of a real ColecoVision. Thanks.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

It's likely that some kind of customization might be needed depending on how the adapter presents itself to USB.

There is some very specific handling done for the 5200 adapter already (for example).

As for direct support on the DB9 it would need work on the core if it's possible. It seems simpler to take the USB route (which should be only fw change).
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

As it happens I have a "Vision-daptor" but no CV or Inty controller yet :)...
I checked quickly and it shows as 32 USB buttons, which is similar to the 5200 adapter.
I think we can copy what's done for the 5200 to map some of these buttons to keyboard; and then it will work with the core.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

That would be awesome because it is way more fun (and the direct route) to plug the various original system controllers into the game ports than to use a modern PC adapter, whenever possible. USB does have the advantage of navigating the menus though feels more like playing a PC emulator. Direct plug into gameports feels authentically old school. Can't wait to test my Competition Pros.. I just snagged a BUNCH of them in different shapes and sizes!!
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

I'd re-edit the thread title removing "ColecoVision" if I could, but this topic is expanding. I tested FIVE different Competition Pros yesterday. For direction testing, I fired up the Pacman arcade core. Funny that some had directional troubles (down + down diagonals) that were not duplicated in games of other cores (ie, the controllers work well).

Testing fire buttons in 'Defender' on the Commodore 64 core was interesting: both Comp Pro buttons (on all five) are mapped the same, so there is no Fire 2. Tried 'Afterburner' on Sega Master System and the MIST repeated the same fire button issue. Plugging a Sega Saturn controller (via adapter/USB) has no button issues, and can navigate MIST menus. One Comp Pro (mini version) I got to navigate the menus once but can't repeat.

Though inconclusive yet, it makes the Commodore controllers less suspect.

Newsdee (and all core creators)- I do have most types of retro controllers AND many convert to USB adapters. If I may be of help in testing any core/controller combinations, I'm happy to QA for you guys. I may try my comp pros on the PC with emulators- hoping my Sega Genesis adapters will work with them.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

From checking the firmware and schematics it looks like the MiST follows the Amiga DB9 pinout by wiring pin 9 to button 2, which makes sense giving its Minimig ancestry.

I have a DB9 Competition Pro replica from Speedlink but unfortunately it has both buttons wired to pin 6 (first button), and even with a USB adaptor it will only register as one button. The adaptor doesn't seem to support 2 buttons either. This could also be the problem for your controllers; a simple way to check would be to plug it to a multimeter and see if you get conductivity from button 2 / pin 9.

As for the USB controllers, you can have a look in firmware code in /usb/joy_mapping.c and look for function "get_joystick_alias"
It has a little list of "known" controllers with their VID/PID, and we give them an alias to display in the OSD joystick test screen.
If you have controllers than aren't listed, it can be added to the list. We can also add a default mapping for each so they work nicely out of the box.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Ugh.. Newsdee you are unfortunately correct. Just tried two comp pros in Fusion emulator in Windows. Mapping directions fine but I cant map button two with it in controller setup because Fusion thinks I am pressing button 1 again. :( I was going to look for a proper Comp pro-to-USB adapter thinking it was my USB adapter intended for Genesis. Master System controllers work on it, and funny thing: I have a blue and silver colored Comp pro with FOUR buttons and a rapid fire switch that supposedly was made FOR the Sega Master System. So Are these Comp pros only good to me if I buy a real C64 or Amiga?
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

Have you tried the joystick test function in the firmware? You shouldn't need to run a game to check if the controller is working.

I think the Amiga will have the exact same problem as the MiST, your Competition Pros might be wired to have only one button (like my replica). I didn't yet try my Megadrive controller but that should accept a second button.

Looking at schematics I think the MiST doesn't wire pin 5 and provides +5V on pin 7. That will prevent using all the buttons on Megadrive controllers, but it should supoort two buttons at least, and the SMS and Amiga controllers shoud work with two buttons as well (they have the same button wiring if I'm not mistaken).
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Got a great screen capture from a video featuring the "Competition Pro STAR" I have, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DiyszMWaYo
from the original box. You get quite an informative list of mappings per system. See attached. Also as a bonus, other than my two standard red/black Comp Pros, see the pic of my other three... :)
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

I really like the form factor and I'd love to have a custom stick with Sanwa parts... unfortunately the case doesn't fit. :(

The recent sticks that I have feel overly stiff; I modded one with better microswitches and it helps. But haven't found a reliable source for switches yet (I forgot where I got those good ones).
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Don't I feel sheepish. Not ever having a Commodore/Amiga back in the day, I now realize the controllers were by design, meant for one button, but made for left handed and right handed players. For decades I assumed there were many two-fire-button games. So I looked it up and found two great (AND up to date-2016!) sites listing games that used/allowed TWO fire buttons. I will try for an Atari list soon. SOURCE AND CREDITS BELONG TO:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57540 and http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/DB9-Joystick for the following info:



Games that support additional buttons

Many early home computers and game consoles came with the classic one button joystick, and supporting more than that was rare. The following list omits the later released systems where controllers with two or more buttons became standard. (like MSX, SEGA Mastersystem, etc)
C64

Only the C64GS had some games which officially supported a second joystick button, and since the C64GS came out very late in the C64's lifespan, it never became common

Chase HQ2 (C64GS Cartridge)
Last Ninja Remix (C64GS Cartridge)
Myth (C64GS Cartridge)
Paradroid Redux
Robocop 2 (C64GS Cartridge)
Spacegun

Amiga

On the Amiga supporting two buttons became much more common (also due to the popular WHDLoad that allows patching games accordingly):

1943 (WHDLoad)
ADoom
Agony (WHDLoad/original?)
Aladdin
Alien 3
Alien Breed 2
Alien Breed - Tower Assault
Apidya
Arabian Nights
Banshee
Battle Squadron (WHDLoad)
BC Kid
Black Viper
Brutal Sports Football
Bubba'n'Stick
Bubble and Squeak
Cool Spot
Dennis
Desert Strike (WHDLoad)
Dragonstone
Fifa International Soccer
Fightin' Spirit
Fire and Ice
Flashback
Football Glory
The Great Giana Sisters (jump only)
Hybris (WHDLoad)
Joe & Mac: Caveman Ninja
John Madden American Football
Leander
Lionheart
Lollypop
Mega Typhoon
Mercs
Mega Twins (WHDLoad)
Midnight Resistance (WHDLoad)
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 2
Mr Nuts
Nigel Mansell's World Championship
Pegasus (WHDLoad)
Powder
Project X
Puggsy
R-Type
R-Type 2
Rainbow Islands (WHDLoad)
Ruff'n'Tumble (WHDLoad)
Shadow Fighter (CD32)
Skeleton Krew
Snow Bros
Street Fighter 2
Super Street Fighter 2
Tony & Friends In Kellogg's Land
Total Football
Turrican
Turrican II
Turrican 3
Virocop
Xtreme Racing
Yo! Joe!

Update: list additions(13 April 2016):

Alien Bash 2
Alien Breed - Tower Assault (CD32 joypad support)
Alien Breed 3D (CD32 only?)
Alien Breed 3D2 - The Killing Grounds (CD32 joypad support)
Astro Marine Corps (WHDLoad)
Base Jumpers (_except_ CD32 - 2nd button: bonus points when pressed a few times)
Blastar [Core] (2nd button: smart bomb)
Capital Punishment
Chaos Engine (CD32 only)
Deluxe Galaga
D/Generation (CD32 only)
Exile AGA (CD32 joypad support)
F1GP
Fire Force
Ghost 'n' Goblins (WHDLoad)
Gloom Deluxe
Golden Axe
Jungle Strike
Kick Off 3 (2nd button _required_ to play)
Kick Off 3: European Challenge
Legends
The Lost Vikings
Marvin's Marvellous Adventure (_requires_ CD32 joypad)
Mean Arenas (CD32 only - 2nd button: bomb)
NightBreed (2nd button: run)
Ninja Mission [Arcadia]
Roadkill
Sarcophaser (WHDLoad)
Shaq Fu
Soccer Kid (CD32 only - 2nd button: jump)
Solomon's Key
Solomon's Key 2 (2nd button: retry level / level selection options)
The Speris Legacy
Spherical Worlds (WHDLoad)
Stormlord (WHDLoad)
Super Obliteration
Super Skidmarks
Super Stardust (CD32 only)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (CD32 joypad support)
Superfrog (CD32 only - 2nd button: jump)
SVIW (WHDLoad - jump: buggy)
Tiger's Bane (CD32 joypad support)
Toki (WHDLoad)
Top Gear 2 (CD32 only)
Uropa 2 (CD32 joypad support)
Whizz
Wing Commander (CD32 only)
Worms: Director's Cut (CD32 joypad support)
X-Out
XP8
Z-Out
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

I just tested my Megadrive controller and it works fine with two buttons (B=button1, C=button2).
I'm tempted to get an SMS controller just to play the core "natively" :)
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Yes- my favorite controller of all time, only superseded by the Saturn design with shoulder buttons IMHO.

I'm actually having a hard time searching if Coleco controllers use independent fire buttons or are mapped as one (again, for lefties and righties) like the COMP pro. My two both don't register the right fire button despite spraying electronics cleaner in them- so I cannot test yet. Also, anyone have a list (if any) of Coleco games using two buttons? Atari 8 bit and ST would be great to know too. REALLY helps pick out the best MAIN controller to use per system.
Thanks!
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

According to this wiring diagram for the Colecovision:
http://old.pinouts.ru/Game/colecovision ... nout.shtml

And compared with the Amiga/MiST DB9 pinout from this discussion:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?49 ... -3-buttons

I think the Colecovision controllers will only work with one button on the MiST or an Amiga because pin 8 is the ground,
so it will never provide power to enable the alternative mapping of the controller.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Newsdee, my friend, I am learning much from you. You are greatly appreciated! :) My lack of right fire button makes sense on a MIST. When trying on a PC under Win7's Game Controllers app, I've tried pairing them with a Genesis USB adapter. I have access to Sega Master System and Atari USB adapters, but yet to test. Perhaps their layout is the same as the Amiga which would also be why I have no right fire button. I will have to get a multi-meter or find a ColecoVision to test. Still, I'd need to find a two-fire button game to test with I think.

Are two-fire controllers suggested on any computers like the ST or is really just the game consoles (NES +SMS forward) that require them? I'm researching ST games now. This reminds me of vinyl: when records were mono, then the option of mono or stereo, and then all in stereo. :)
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

As far as I know the ST has no two button games. This thread seems to confirm it:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/226491 ... ton-games/

To make up for a lack of button, many games use "up" for jump. That can get annoying so one thing that you can do on the MiST USB controllers (or even on a real DB9 controller by rewiring) is to map a button to "Up". For Amiga custom joysticks (made from arcade parts) they usually map three buttons (1, up, 2).

Speaking of arcade, many early arcades games only work well with 4-directional joysticks. For that reasons, still today, arcade sticks come with the option to restrict their movement to only 4 directions by use of a "restrictor gate" (usually 8 and 4 way are on the same piece of plastic, you just rotate it; for 2-way you need to buy a separate one).
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by seastalker »

Wow- my memory fails me. If the ST (according to the thread) is all 1 button games, then I assume my memory of Atari 800xl 2 button games must be false. I knew there at least MOSTLY were 1 button, but Spy VS Spy, Raid Over Moscow, .. I'm shocked- they are one fire button. My After Burner days of one button for rockets and one for guns must have merged into F-15 Strike Eagle and more.

Well... the bright side is that the limited functionality of 1 button games across pretty much all(?) computers of the 80s at least makes the controller of choice an "anything goes" scenario. I can use my ColecoVision controllers, Atari 2600s or Competition Pros on all 80s computer games except on the few games in the list above: Then I may switch to a Sega controller. I hope all gamers curious of this finds this thread.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

Just made my own Competition Pro Sanwa Ghetto Edition :mrgreen:
comp pro ghetto.jpg
Works great with two buttons!
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by duhproject »

Newsdee wrote:Just made my own Competition Pro Sanwa Ghetto Edition :mrgreen:

comp pro ghetto.jpg

Works great with two buttons!
Ha! This is awesome. Is that a Samsung Phone box?! Hehehehe.
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Re: MIST+ testing controllers: ColecoVision

Post by Newsdee »

duhproject wrote: Is that a Samsung Phone box?! Hehehehe.
Yes. :)

It needs a plexiglass top and to be a bit heavier though... but I like the size.
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