SuperVidel News

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mdivancic
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by mdivancic »

Any updates on this?
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by Dal »

Take a look at the news page at http://nature.atari.org

Specifically the entry dated 25th June. ;)
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by mdivancic »

Dal wrote:Take a look at the news page at http://nature.atari.org

Specifically the entry dated 25th June. ;)
Completely missed that, thanks Dal!
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by Fenix »

Wish I had money for the SuperVidel.. they are not taking any more orders now :(
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by atarian90 »

Noooo! :( How could I have missed this? :oops: I hope they made a couple extras or make another run. I have been mostly out of the Atari-Forum browsing for almost the last year due to time and health issues. I even had the funds reserved, but it's no use now if I can't buy it. :|
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by dml »

I would also have been very interested - just missed it. :-z
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by pixben »

from france : i ask them
when is it ready ?
they said


Don't worry

We are updating the SuperVidel layout because the manufacturer told us this summer that the layout they had agreed to earlier was not good for production.
But then we had to find new jobs because our company went bankrupt. And move Henrik's home to a new appartment.
So it has been a very busy summer. Right now Henrik is busy making the changes to the layout, but it takes a while and he can't work on it all the time.
It should take another week or so before we can send the new layout to them.

bye,
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by jvas »

The Guys are doing a great job:

"2012-12-20 17:32:30
Today the manufacturer phoned Henrik and said that the four SuperVidel rev2 prototypes are ready!! :)

At first they had been pessimistic about making it before Christmas since the chinese subcontractor of the PCB laminates didn't deliver them last friday as promised, but yesterday.

We will pick them up tomorrow during lunch and post some pictures here later."
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by DarkLord »

Awesomeness. Can't wait to see this in action (especially in my Falcon). :lol:
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by mdivancic »

What a great holiday surprise! I check their site about once a week, but hadint' seen this yet. Thanks Jvas...
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by jvas »

mdivancic wrote:What a great holiday surprise! I check their site about once a week, but hadint' seen this yet. Thanks Jvas...
You are welcome. It is the part of my daily morning "seance" at my workplace, to check their site, too ;)
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by calimero »

Probably crazy question but:

- is there any chance to see "composite desktop" on Atari/MiNT with SuperVidel (or some PCI graphic card)?

Amiga OS 4 has composite desktop...
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by wongck »

Doesn't the AES/VDI does rendering of windows for the applications?
It's some what like composite windows, where the OS does the rendering and application writes via a VDI buffer.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by calimero »

If it is like that, than we only need acces to GPU VRAM - to make all VDI buffers in VRAM :)
And let GPU to compose desktop :)
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by mdivancic »

Check out the latest news!

http://nature.atari.org
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by mdivancic »

Yet again, check out the latest news!

http://nature.atari.org

Cool!
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by shoggoth »

calimero wrote:If it is like that, than we only need acces to GPU VRAM - to make all VDI buffers in VRAM :)
And let GPU to compose desktop :)
Basically, window content is managed by the application, not the AES. The AES informs the application about areas which needs to be redrawn. The actual screen update is then handled by the application itself. On graphics cards such as the CTPCI and the SuperVidel, the screen generally already resides in VRAM, which makes this process much faster than it would be on standard hardware.

To achieve real compositing however, a new AES and VDI is needed.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by calimero »

shoggoth wrote:
calimero wrote:If it is like that, than we only need acces to GPU VRAM - to make all VDI buffers in VRAM :)
And let GPU to compose desktop :)
Basically, window content is managed by the application, not the AES. The AES informs the application about areas which needs to be redrawn. The actual screen update is then handled by the application itself. On graphics cards such as the CTPCI and the SuperVidel, the screen generally already resides in VRAM, which makes this process much faster than it would be on standard hardware.

To achieve real compositing however, a new AES and VDI is needed.
"the screen generally already resides in VRAM" - of course, but entire desktop screen, not as separate windows.

so what changes should be done to AES and VDI to achieve composite desktop? As I see it, there would be no need to AES inform application to do redraw of screen since every application window would never experience overlapping or to be partial hidden by other windows. every window should have it's own part of VRAM and composite engine would draw all this window in correct order to desktop. right? :)

btw I see that MyAES support semi transparent windows but how it is implemented? does it re-calculate RGB value for every pixel when windows is moved/dragged?
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by OL »

calimero wrote:
shoggoth wrote:
calimero wrote:If it is like that, than we only need acces to GPU VRAM - to make all VDI buffers in VRAM :)
And let GPU to compose desktop :)
Basically, window content is managed by the application, not the AES. The AES informs the application about areas which needs to be redrawn. The actual screen update is then handled by the application itself. On graphics cards such as the CTPCI and the SuperVidel, the screen generally already resides in VRAM, which makes this process much faster than it would be on standard hardware.

To achieve real compositing however, a new AES and VDI is needed.
"the screen generally already resides in VRAM" - of course, but entire desktop screen, not as separate windows.

so what changes should be done to AES and VDI to achieve composite desktop? As I see it, there would be no need to AES inform application to do redraw of screen since every application window would never experience overlapping or to be partial hidden by other windows. every window should have it's own part of VRAM and composite engine would draw all this window in correct order to desktop. right? :)

btw I see that MyAES support semi transparent windows but how it is implemented? does it re-calculate RGB value for every pixel when windows is moved/dragged?
shoggoth is true. In the case of semi transparent windows it fully artificial this false transparency, the screen is locked just take a rectangle on the screen and calculate the transparency on the same screen, this is very simple.

The content of windows is manage by application and as there is no VDI handle by windows there is near no way to manage redraw by window unfortunatly, but I have found a first small solution to this problem it is possible to see in action here:
http://myaes.lutece.net/config_myaes.html#windows_ba
It's not fully finish and there is still some bugs.

This will be avaible on 0.96 version

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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by calimero »

^
I saw that. So you manage to captures/save bitmap of running windows (even if they are hidden partially)?
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by OL »

calimero wrote:^
I saw that. So you manage to captures/save bitmap of running windows (even if they are hidden partially)?
Yes as you can see on the full image but it's good for computer with video card with memory (it work fine on CT60 with Radeon video card) to be fast or on Aranym.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by calimero »

if it is no problem, can you explain how did you achieve this?
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by joska »

My guess is that he saves a copy of the window contents before a window is untopped. That way he will always have a copy of the last known content of most windows.

It's a relatively easy way to get a "compositing" desktop, although it will be quite useless as you can't see any updates to the underlying windows. But it's a clever trick to preview windows :)
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by shoggoth »

calimero wrote:so what changes should be done to AES and VDI to achieve composite desktop? As I see it, there would be no need to AES inform application to do redraw of screen since every application window would never experience overlapping or to be partial hidden by other windows. every window should have it's own part of VRAM and composite engine would draw all this window in correct order to desktop. right? :)
Basically, lots. GEM isn't designed for it, and I highly doubt we'd benefit from it since it would mean using quite a bit of CPU and memory compared to how it works today. A compromise can be achieved when applications use offscreen bitmaps in VRAM, I guess.
btw I see that MyAES support semi transparent windows but how it is implemented? does it re-calculate RGB value for every pixel when windows is moved/dragged?
Just guessing, since I haven't tried this feature:
1. Copy window contents
2. Redraw stuff that used to be covered by the window
3. Blit window to screen in some smart fashion, use a checkered pattern or some alpha thingy using the CPU or gfx card (there is no standard for alpha-blits on the Atari afaik. The SuperVidel supports it, but one would have to use the XBIOS interface for it). When the window is moved, undraw it and blit it again. Repeat.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Post by OL »

shoggoth wrote:
calimero wrote:so what changes should be done to AES and VDI to achieve composite desktop? As I see it, there would be no need to AES inform application to do redraw of screen since every application window would never experience overlapping or to be partial hidden by other windows. every window should have it's own part of VRAM and composite engine would draw all this window in correct order to desktop. right? :)
Basically, lots. GEM isn't designed for it, and I highly doubt we'd benefit from it since it would mean using quite a bit of CPU and memory compared to how it works today. A compromise can be achieved when applications use offscreen bitmaps in VRAM, I guess.
btw I see that MyAES support semi transparent windows but how it is implemented? does it re-calculate RGB value for every pixel when windows is moved/dragged?
Just guessing, since I haven't tried this feature:
1. Copy window contents
2. Redraw stuff that used to be covered by the window
3. Blit window to screen in some smart fashion, use a checkered pattern or some alpha thingy using the CPU or gfx card (there is no standard for alpha-blits on the Atari afaik. The SuperVidel supports it, but one would have to use the XBIOS interface for it). When the window is moved, undraw it and blit it again. Repeat.
Yes it work like this.

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