Extend the sound system for MiNT

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AtariTrek
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Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AtariTrek » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:12 pm

Excuse me if I am wrong about this.

I have been wondering if it would be a good idea to make a multitasking friendly alternative to control and play sound.
An application would be able to open a sound channel for sound output/input.
That way all the sound channels would be routed to the main output with EQ and Volume.
Also sound functions like Pan would be accessible, or even simple Reverb or Bit Conversion and Dither if programmed that way.
A great programmer could make proper exchangable routines for machines like the ST, Falcon or the Firebee and so on.

So I guess I am seeking a MiNT developer programmer.

Cheers

/AtariTrekkie

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AdamK
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AdamK » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:09 am

Falcon could do it with DSP. ST is to slow for such OS level infrastructure, Firebee probably could do it, but it would require a lot of CPU time to do that.
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AtariTrek » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:37 am

Hello AdamK!

Yes I wrote the ST but obviously it is too slow (theoretically).
However EQ and Volume on the master output should be doable?
Thank you for replying and listening.

/AtariTrekkie

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Cyprian
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby Cyprian » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:30 am

AtariTrek wrote:Excuse me if I am wrong about this.

I have been wondering if it would be a good idea to make a multitasking friendly alternative to control and play sound.
An application would be able to open a sound channel for sound output/input.
That way all the sound channels would be routed to the main output with EQ and Volume.
Also sound functions like Pan would be accessible, or even simple Reverb or Bit Conversion and Dither if programmed that way.
A great programmer could make proper exchangable routines for machines like the ST, Falcon or the Firebee and so on.

So I guess I am seeking a MiNT developer programmer.

Cheers

/AtariTrekkie


there is something like that - Zmagxsnd / Magxsound and X-SOUND
All of them provide Falcon's compatible audio Xbios functions


More you can find there: https://mikrosk.github.io/xbios/
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby mfro » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:23 pm

AdamK wrote:... Firebee probably could do it, but it would require a lot of CPU time to do that ...


The FireBee could easily do it (and much more), probably even without any noticeable CPU load.

It has a fully AC97 2.0 compatible audio subsystem including mixer and the ColdFire µC even brings fully AC97 compatible UARTs to couple to using AC-LINK. Together with the ColdFire's 16 channel MDMA (that can control the UART without CPU intervention), this allows feeding the AC97 with virtually zero CPU load.

It just requires somebody to code it.

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AdamK » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:33 pm

AtariTrek wrote:Yes I wrote the ST but obviously it is too slow (theoretically).
However EQ and Volume on the master output should be doable?

On ST master volume is trivial as long as You do not need to change it in realtime, as it is provided in HW.
EQ would take to much CPU time.
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby ThorstenOtto » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:47 pm

As Cyprian already mentioned, most of that functionality is already present through Falcon compatible XBIOS functions. Having something like /dev/mixer on mint would be more unix-like, but would be another interface, requiring all sound applications to be updated to make use of it. If you look at https://github.com/SDL-mirror/SDL/blob/ ... E.MiNT#L75 , you will notice that there are already way too many.

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AtariTrek » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 am

So, it is a matter of backwards compability together with the issue about CPU and machine power.
However MiNT is machine-aware, so I feel that at least volume should be present, and possibly a VU-meter or "Activity" when appropriate?
But hey, that just me.. lol
I still love these old (and new) machines, so it is cool to "push" them further when possible, into the future.

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby AdamK » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:48 am

MiNT has never really did anything with audio hw. There is an outdated ancient unix compatibile /dev/snd driver, but it was never really used by anyone and has not been maintained for years.
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby 1st1 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Xou can make Falcon's compatible audio Xbios functions to support AMiga's Paula soundchip. That would be usefull for Vampire-user.
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby Cyprian » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:01 pm

1st1 wrote:Xou can make Falcon's compatible audio Xbios functions to support AMiga's Paula soundchip. That would be usefull for Vampire-user.


this is not possible.
amiga (including Vampire) has no enough power to support, on the software level, Falcon's compatible audio Xbios.

But Vampire team can add necessary code directly in FPGA - interleaved SDMA, Sound Matrix ,Codec, and DSP.
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby 1st1 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:23 pm

If firebee can do, vampire should, too. Don't forget AMMX capapilities, this should be as powerfull as DSP.
Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 2x Falcon 030 32GB/14MB+ScrnBlstrIII * 2x TT030 73GB/20MB+Nova * 520/1040STFM * 520/1040STE * 260/520ST/+ * some Mega ST * 2x Mega STE 500MB/4MB+M.CoCo * Stacy * STBook * SLM605 * SLM804 * SLM605 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3

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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby Cyprian » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:43 pm

1st1 wrote:If firebee can do, vampire should, too. Don't forget AMMX capapilities, this should be as powerfull as DSP.

nope. there is no enough power to emulate DSP neither with ColdFire nor 68080.


But they add DSP support directly in FPGA code
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby shoggoth » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:08 pm

Cyprian wrote:
1st1 wrote:If firebee can do, vampire should, too. Don't forget AMMX capapilities, this should be as powerfull as DSP.

nope. there is no enough power to emulate DSP neither with ColdFire nor 68080.


But they add DSP support directly in FPGA code


One doesn’t have to emulate the DSP to add a useful standard XBIOS audio API. Just look at similar solutions for the Milan, MagicMac, Hades. Or STFA.
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Re: Extend the sound system for MiNT

Postby mikro » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:49 pm

I guess Cyprian means also the sound matrix emulation. Otherwise shoggoth is right, there's no reason why one couldn't implement Falcon compatible XBIOS sound driver.


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