Copy II ST?

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tjlazer
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Copy II ST?

Postby tjlazer » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:42 am

Anyone have this copy program? It is supposed to copy protected disks...

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Mug UK
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Postby Mug UK » Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:19 am

There's also Dissector .. that would de-protect certain Rob Northen protected disks. If anyone has either of these two programs, please upload.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby keili » Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:14 am

I found a program with that name on the Floppyshop Uitlity Disk 62. You can download the file at http://people.freenet.de/KeilisAtari/UTL-062.zip , because I couldn't upload it here.

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Postby Mug UK » Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:41 pm

I just got copies back of every Floppyshop and ST Club CDs (except for ST Club #4 which was only pure Calamus fonts etc) today .. can't remember where I have left my original ones.... I'll find them one day.

Will be ISO (Cue/BIN format probably) all of the CDs and make them available via eMule later on tomorrow.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Procopy/Copy2ST

Postby Dspiz » Wed Jun 30, 2004 2:02 am

Attached are the programs that you are looking for. There are also a couple of others as well. For some reason the ST-Copy program only works if you put it on its own disk image and then run it. It doesn't work when on this disk - not that you would ever use it, except to see the improvement over time in the copy programs.

If I remember correctly, I always had the best luck with version 1.6 of Procopy...even when the newer ones failed it would sometimes work.
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Re: Procopy/Copy2ST

Postby ijor » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:15 am

Dspiz wrote:For some reason the ST-Copy program only works if you put it on its own disk image and then run it. It doesn't work when on this disk


If I remember correctly, ST-Copy was copy-protected.

Yes, it is amazing, but is true, many disk copiers and even some unprotectors were in turn copy-protected. And of course that they couldn't copy/unprotect themselves. :)

Those coming from the 8-bit probably remember all the CSS stuff.

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Postby Mug UK » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:03 am

Any news on Dissector (Think it was that name - was sold by Evesham Micros in the UK if I remember).

Built in copy decryption for file-based ROb Northern titles.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby Dspiz » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:02 pm

Along this topic - there were a series of disks with "skeleton keys" on them for various games.

The closest that I have come finding them is a message found using Google pointing here:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/steem ... 00037.html

Does anyone have these compilations? Or know Joe :D ?

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tjlazer
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Postby tjlazer » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:37 am

@Dspiz

Thanks! Hey I am in Tacoma. There a lot of Atari ST users around here?

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Postby bjjones37 » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:26 pm

The Blitz cable and software was one of the best ways to copy protected disks. It could copy just about eveything as I recall with just a few exceptions. Of course you had to have two disk drives. I used to Copy2PC option board to get what Blitz could not.
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Postby ijor » Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:13 am

bjjones37 wrote:The Blitz cable and software was one of the best ways to copy protected disks.


I wouldn't call analog copiers, like the Blitz, the best way to copy any kind of disk. They do can copy many disks that software copiers can't. But there are several problems associated with this type of copy.

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Postby bjjones37 » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm

[quote="ijor ... They do can copy many disks that software copiers can't. But there are several problems associated with this type of copy....[/quote]

OK, now you've done it. You went and got me curious. I used blitz for quite some time. While I only used it on programs I could not copy otherwise, I do not remember it causing any problems. What was your experience?
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Postby bodkinz » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:42 pm

i think the Dissector thingy you are after Mug is on The Duplicator - Copying Menu 1.msa which you have already put on Atari Legend FTP :D

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Postby ijor » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:10 pm

bjjones37 wrote:[quote="ijor ... They do can copy many disks that software copiers can't. But there are several problems associated with this type of copy....

OK, now you've done it. You went and got me curious. I used blitz for quite some time. While I only used it on programs I could not copy otherwise, I do not remember it causing any problems. What was your experience?



Disk analog copiers work very similarly as dubbing an audio tape. They just reproduce the signal from the source diskette into the destination one. The consequences of this are several:

- The copy won’t be aligned to the index hole. Using matching drives from the same manufacturer will help a bit. But both drives can never be synced well enough. So any protection that relies on some kind of index alignment will fail. This includes software that can easily be copied with a software copier.

- Any “soft” (recoverable) error will be reproduced on the destination and converted to a “hard” (unrecoverable) error. A soft error happens when you read a sector and get an error, but it reads ok after a retry. “Soft” errors are much more common than what people realize. You usually never note them because there is a lot of retry logic going on at different levels of the operating system.

Other type of copiers, both software and hardware, will retry on any error and will usually recover from soft errors. But an analog copier will not, it can’t because it has no way of detecting the error in the first place.

- No verification is performed. So errors produced when writing are not detected. Again, no verification is possible.

- No filtering, adjustment or precompensation is performed. Take in mind that we are taking about a mechanical device and a magnetical medium. The signal you read is not exactly what was originally recorded. Digital devices, such as the FDC or a hardware digital copier, perform a lot of filtering that here is not possible.

- Because no “digitalization” is performed, the signal is degraded further on each “generation” copy. After a small number of generations there is very little chance of getting a working copy. Third generation copies usually don’t work (a copy of a copy of a copy of an original).

With today’s electronics, it should be possible to make an analog copier that more or less overcomes some of the above limitations. But it wouldn’t make much sense when you can as easily make a digital device.

The digital hardware copiers I have some experience are (in order of preference):

- The Discovery Cartridge for the ST.
- The Catweasel for the PC.
- The Central Point Deluxe Option Board for the PC.

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Postby bjjones37 » Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:19 pm

Thanks alot ijor, I see what you mean now. Did not realize at first what you meant by analog copier but it makes a lot of sense now that you have explained it. Maybe I should have used it to just copy specific tracks...
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