Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

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mzry
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Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:59 pm

Just as the topic says, Netsurf doesn't work with 256 colours, only 16bit+. If you run it with 256 colours it crashes out.

Is it possible to make a 256 colour version?

Thx
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:44 pm

I'm gonna sign up to their bug report system and see if I can get some help from the developers.
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby jury » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:34 pm

I'm pretty sure that mono ( the guy responsible for atari port ) also done a version for 256 colors. Cant remember the link now but I guess thats somewhere in his quite long netsurf topic here on atari-forum.

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:30 pm

jury wrote:I'm pretty sure that mono ( the guy responsible for atari port ) also done a version for 256 colors. Cant remember the link now but I guess thats somewhere in his quite long netsurf topic here on atari-forum.


Thanks jury, after digging in the archives I found his post in 2012, but his link is dead now. I will email him and hope for the best :)
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby jury » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:49 am

mzry wrote:after digging in the archives I found his post in 2012, but his link is dead now. I will email him and hope for the best :)


Have you tried this dead link through webarchive? There is quite a chance that it was archived so you could download from there.

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sety » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:54 am

AFAIK not possible. I went through the same struggles. I recall finding some info that someone had tried but it was too slow.

I notice from your sig that you have an accelerated bus. TC should be available with the right monitor. I'm running 1008x880 TC with no special hardware except a CT60 and a 25Mhz bus.

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby Ektus » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:39 am

Old versions from back then might work in 256 colours, but are pretty outdated as far as standards, JavaScript and the like are concerned. Pretty slow, too, so rather than as proof of concept they are of little use for actual surfing.

Testing a build of netsurf 3.0 alpha from September, 2011 on my CT2A Falcon with 256 colours and MagiC shows it doesn't work. It won't crash and will fetch data, but display only gibberish, even in the "about" window which is plain text.

An even older build from June, 2011 shows the text file (in black letters on red background), but I wouldn't recommend it for more than testing.

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:21 am

sety wrote:AFAIK not possible. I went through the same struggles. I recall finding some info that someone had tried but it was too slow.

I notice from your sig that you have an accelerated bus. TC should be available with the right monitor. I'm running 1008x880 TC with no special hardware except a CT60 and a 25Mhz bus.

Cheers


Wow, nice res! I didn't know that size was possible. I'll mess around with videlity to see if I can get that too, could you take a photo of your configuration screen to help me reproduce the settings? Thx
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:47 pm

I run NetSurf on a Atari TT with a lot of Ram and a MACH64 at 1280x1024-24bit Colors. It is not useable, to slow, very very slow ...

You can also use a 1MB ET4000 nova at 800x600-64k Colors too.
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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:49 pm

frank.lukas wrote:I run NetSurf on a Atari TT with a lot of Ram and a MACH64 at 1280x1024-24bit Colors. It is not useable, to slow, very very slow ...

You can also use a 1MB ET4000 nova at 800x600-64k Colors too.


Yes well I think the TT bus becomes saturated at 24bit colour, it is far too slow with my TT in 1024x768 24bit mach64 2mb. This is why I would prefer a 1024x768 256 colour compatible Netsurf.
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:11 pm

Yeah a 256 color option would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:31 pm

mzry wrote:
frank.lukas wrote:I run NetSurf on a Atari TT with a lot of Ram and a MACH64 at 1280x1024-24bit Colors. It is not useable, to slow, very very slow ...

You can also use a 1MB ET4000 nova at 800x600-64k Colors too.


Yes well I think the TT bus becomes saturated at 24bit colour, it is far too slow with my TT in 1024x768 24bit mach64 2mb. This is why I would prefer a 1024x768 256 colour compatible Netsurf.


The speed is higher with a ATI MACH64 at 24 or 32-bit Colors than with 256 Colors. When TT-Mid has 100% speed 1280x1024/24bit has over 600% speed.


NetSurf is even on a Firebee very slow !
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sety » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:29 am

Wow, nice res! I didn't know that size was possible. I'll mess around with videlity to see if I can get that too, could you take a photo of your configuration screen to help me reproduce the settings? Thx

[/quote]

Screenshot attached. Note that the timing information shown is incorrect as screenspain doesn't know that videl is now 50Mhz.
I can't start Videlity config in 060 mode it crashes, but I'll get you a screenshot of Videlity config next time I reboot.
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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sashapont » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:54 am

Is it possible to compile new version (not 2.9) of netsurf for Atari?
Atari Falcon, Firebee

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby jury » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:23 am


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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sety » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:12 am

As promised:
videlity.jpg


You need to add this to your xaaes.cnf to get it to use TC:
xaaescnf.jpg


I found that I had lower the boot colour depth each time I upped the Videlity modes, presumably to free up memory, otherwise Videlity would crash. For this one I had to lower it to 4 colour, which means missing out on the cool ATARI FALCON/CT60 boot logo, but oh well. This problem could just be unique to my machine. They all seem to have a personality of their own. :)
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Last edited by sety on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby m0n0 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:53 am

Hello,

I'm sorry I can not help with this right now. There was a version for 256 colors around, at least I did some testing with hatari. I was very unstable in 256 colors mode... but there where a few things you can do: turn off images (So that it is basically a text browser with nice fonts rendering), enable monochrom font rendering.

I can not remember the exact configuration key names.

And I'm sorry that my website is offline, but it's all saved and I think the page will be back online in the first quarter of 2019. So you can download these older versions of netsurf.

By the the way, another, older website is still online:

https://freeshell.de/~monokrom/geeklog/

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:48 am

sety wrote:As promised


Man I don't know what voodoo magic is going on inside your falcon, but I can't reproduce anything near what you have got. I can't get mine to push TC over 640x480. Using your exact settings when I press 'test' in videlity I just get a blank screen, I even have an OSSC so I'm sure its not the monitor.

Highest res with a decent colour depth I can achieve is 1024x768x256. Damn I wish I could get TC in the res you have!
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sety » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:54 am

mzry wrote:
Man I don't know what voodoo magic is going on inside your falcon, but I can't reproduce anything near what you have got. I can't get mine to push TC over 640x480. Using your exact settings when I press 'test' in videlity I just get a blank screen, I even have an OSSC so I'm sure its not the monitor.


It should work. What kind of monitor do you have? Did you end up getting that Dell U2410?
ATARI FALCON/CT60 @99/25Mhz 512MB - 520STF 1MB & Internal IDE - 520ST unmodified (my very first computer) - A couple of useless XE's - and a really cool Atari desktop calculator :)

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby mzry » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:36 am

sety wrote:
mzry wrote:
Man I don't know what voodoo magic is going on inside your falcon, but I can't reproduce anything near what you have got. I can't get mine to push TC over 640x480. Using your exact settings when I press 'test' in videlity I just get a blank screen, I even have an OSSC so I'm sure its not the monitor.


It should work. What kind of monitor do you have? Did you end up getting that Dell U2410?


No I ended up getting an OSSC which should be more compatible than any multisync I would have thought. But maybe I'm wrong. Can your machine do 1024x768 TC as well? I can barely manage 256 with mine.
Falcon ct60e 060 - 256mb ram - phantom bus and dsp accel // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - Ati Mach64 2mb // Atari STM 4160 - 4MB ram - 16Mhz exxos 1.5 booster - Ultrasatan

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby frank.lukas » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:50 am

When your have a right ET4000 ISA card you can work with 800x600/64k Colors ...
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby joska » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:09 am

mzry wrote:Yes well I think the TT bus becomes saturated at 24bit colour, it is far too slow with my TT in 1024x768 24bit mach64 2mb. This is why I would prefer a 1024x768 256 colour compatible Netsurf.


But then Netsurf will have to convert all images to 256 colour, which will be even slower. A good compromise would be 16 bit colour. A lot less data to shuffle but still "truecolour" so no dithering is necessary.

Anyway, using Netsurf on a TT sounds painful. I find it too slow even on my Firebee. That's the reality of dealing with today's web.
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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:31 pm

joska wrote:
mzry wrote:Yes well I think the TT bus becomes saturated at 24bit colour, it is far too slow with my TT in 1024x768 24bit mach64 2mb. This is why I would prefer a 1024x768 256 colour compatible Netsurf.


But then Netsurf will have to convert all images to 256 colour, which will be even slower. A good compromise would be 16 bit colour. A lot less data to shuffle but still "truecolour" so no dithering is necessary.

Anyway, using Netsurf on a TT sounds painful. I find it too slow even on my Firebee. That's the reality of dealing with today's web.


Ah, we need a web page co-processor to retrofit into our old machines. :lol:

Wonder if anyone makes such a thing? Maybe a Raspberry Pi as a web server?

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby ThorstenOtto » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:51 pm

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:Ah, we need a web page co-processor to retrofit into our old machines. :lol:


Such a thing already exists. Its called ARAnyM :D

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Re: Can somebody compile a Netsurf that works with 256 colours?

Postby sety » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:45 am

mzry wrote:No I ended up getting an OSSC which should be more compatible than any multisync I would have thought. But maybe I'm wrong. Can your machine do 1024x768 TC as well? I can barely manage 256 with mine.


I wasn't able to get 1024x768 in TC but 1008x880 was fine. The highest 256 colour mode I got was 1344x1008. (I can't remember if that was before or after overclocked the bus)
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