Ide Interface in a Mega STE

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talrek
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Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:19 pm

Hi everybody,
i'm the new owner of a new MegaSTE (and a TT030 also...)
I intend to replace the noisy internal SCSI drive with an IDE interface.

So i took my STE's IDe interface and.... it is not recognize. I saw it can be because of the bus speed of the interface = 8Mhz, and the MSTE runs at 16Mhz

I changed with xcontrol to put the MSTE at 8Mhz with no cache, but it doesn't work neither... I measured it at pin 15 of the 68000 and it gives me 8Mhz... I don't understand why it doesn"t work... I think i'm missing something... May be an expert can tell me ?

In one Alanh's thread i saw he use the U11 signals, i think it is the 8MHz but not only ? i see 3 wires : CLK (at 8Mhz) and ????

Thank you for your help !

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby AtariZoll » Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:54 pm

Mega STE works by default at 8MHz. And bus is at 8MHz even when CPU is at 16. So problem is somewhere else.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:48 am

Well problem is that it works fine with my STE's so no problem with the interface...
I mean i thought that the problem was the CLK from the CPU. The interface is plugged on it so it take the CLK from it.
At 16Mhz , the bus is at 8Mhz but the CPU is at 16, and so is the interface.

So i turned everything to 8Mhz with Xcontrol, but it is always the same... How can a MSTE be so different from a STE ?

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby alexh » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:31 am

The MSTE has an external processor cache?

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:14 pm

Cache is not problem for sure (only driver SW should take care about and turn off during transfers).
I had self built IDE adapter in my Mega STE, and it worked fine. Don't remember anything special in compare to IDE in STE or ST. Adapter don't need (CPU) clock. Some link to how to connect Alanh adapter ?
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:48 pm

Well, in these pages you can see there are two board : Ide and Mega STE adapter
http://www.fairlite.co.uk/AtariKit//ide/ide.html

There is also a subject about the need to use the U11 signal to get it working on a MSTE :
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=24467&hilit=ide+mega+ste+alan&start=100
it's the 12th message from top ;-)

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:13 pm

What I see is that you need to order Atari Mega STE board and cable - to put under PAL chip U11.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

talrek
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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:53 am

AtariZoll wrote:What I see is that you need to order Atari Mega STE board and cable - to put under PAL chip U11.


Well the point is to use my interface in the mega ste, since i don't understand why it doesn't work. I want to understand how it works :)

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:58 am

Hi again, i may have found something in my understanding.
My interface is based on ppera&popsel schematics, based on Peter Putnik's schematics. So if i understand these schematics were for STF at first, STF have 8Mhz.

On an earlier version of Peter Putnik's shematics, he uses 2 74HCT245 to delay data with the bus... datasheet gives 8ns.
After, he gives an other version without these 2 ICs, it worked because it was STF...

I hope i understand well.

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 pm

talrek wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:What I see is that you need to order Atari Mega STE board and cable - to put under PAL chip U11.


Well the point is to use my interface in the mega ste, since i don't understand why it doesn't work. I want to understand how it works :)


That Mega STE board is not complete IDE interface, just an add-on for STE one, to make it work on Mega STE.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:12 pm

talrek wrote:Hi again, i may have found something in my understanding.
My interface is based on ppera&popsel schematics, based on Peter Putnik's schematics. So if i understand these schematics were for STF at first, STF have 8Mhz.
On an earlier version of Peter Putnik's shematics, he uses 2 74HCT245 to delay data with the bus... datasheet gives 8ns.
After, he gives an other version without these 2 ICs, it worked because it was STF...
I hope i understand well.


2 74HCT245 is not for delay, and has nothing with CPU clock (x MHz) - that's just line driver. Things are that with modern Flash cards it is better to not use it, and connect IDE port directly to CPU bus. All it can work on STE, Mega STE. CPU clock has no influence.
In case of Alanh board it is different, it seems.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby alanh » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:29 pm

http://www.atarikit.co.uk/monster/monster.html

The MegaSTE MonSTer works at 8MHz and 16MHz which speeds up IDE access at 16MHz.

The older ide.html page required the 8MHz bus signals to work correctly hence the bus adapter.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

talrek
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Re: Ide Interface in a Mega STE

Postby talrek » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:37 pm

Ok,
thank you, i understand better why you need this adapter. So i don't need one.
I must find the problem now.. Why does it work on a STE and not in a MSTE. It is no recognized at all, no interface found with your latest drivers.

Thank you again all of you for your explanations.


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