Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

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Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:57 am

I'm trying to repair Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D

Symptoms:

No picture signal (black screen on monitor), no right upper corner led light on keyboard, no sounds from floppy, the only IC that gets a little warm is 680000.

Tested so far:

PSU works in another 1040STFM
Keyboard works in another 1040STFM
Floppy works in another 1040STFM
All socketed chips reseated (3 of the TOS chip pins seemed to have been bent under the chip, don't know what the previous owner has been trying, but they are straight now)
Measured that +5V and +12V are ok in J10 and in Floppy connector.
Measured JP2 red cable going through motherboard upperpart has +11
Measured JP3 blue cable going through motherboard upperpart has -9V, should this be -12V?

See detailed picture: http://relay.pp.fi/Atari/1040STF/C07052 ... C_0749.JPG

Any schematics around for this motheboard revision?
Any way to change 6 chip TOS to 2 chip TOS since there are no 256k/1M jumpers on the layout?
What would you recommend me to do next?

Help please!
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Robson » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:22 pm

Where are you from?

No MMU in the socket on the picture, i guess you just took photo without that, right?

If you're in the UK I have an ST diag cart you can borrow.
You can even buy it if you want (£10 + pp). That might help you to identify the problem.

Changing the TOS to 2 chip version won't be easy with this board. I wouldn't bother.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Arne » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:33 pm

Hanzu wrote:What would you recommend me to do next?


I would check /HALT and /BERR lines on the CPU with a scope.
Get the Service Manual and check the paragraph "Troubleshooting a dead unit". It's quite helpful.

Edit: Service Manual can be found http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/Atari%20520ST%201040ST%20Service%20Manual.pdf.
Your 1040 is equipped with 6 EPROMs 27C512. That's not typical and usually home-made conversion to hold two TOSes. In your case the stickers are labeled 1.0/1.4. My guess is that the TOS ROMs may need some kind of "adjustment". Tie the topmost address line of the EPROMs all to GND and see what happens.
What happened to the IC from the vacated PLCC socket?

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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:11 pm

Robson wrote:Where are you from?

No MMU in the socket on the picture, i guess you just took photo without that, right?

If you're in the UK I have an ST diag cart you can borrow.
You can even buy it if you want (£10 + pp). That might help you to identify the problem.

Changing the TOS to 2 chip version won't be easy with this board. I wouldn't bother.


Oh crap! So the fault is that the MMU that is missing? I thought it is an empty socket for Blitter. There were spring bracket in the socket and I removed it like I also did from GLUE chip. So this 1040STF was sold to me without MMU in an AS IS condition ebay auction. I guess that is the reason why it gives black screen. What is the part number for suitable MMU and do you have a place to recommend for me trying to get one?

I'm in Finland. Just updated my profile to include that (and some other things too).

I may want to buy that ST diag with that price. Can it be used to diagnose Falcon too?

Thank you for your reply!
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:18 pm

Arne wrote:I would check /HALT and /BERR lines on the CPU with a scope.
Get the Service Manual and check the paragraph "Troubleshooting a dead unit". It's quite helpful.

Edit: Service Manual can be found http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/Atari%20520ST%201040ST%20Service%20Manual.pdf.
Your 1040 is equipped with 6 EPROMs 27C512. That's not typical and usually home-made conversion to hold two TOSes. In your case the stickers are labeled 1.0/1.4. My guess is that the TOS ROMs may need some kind of "adjustment". Tie the topmost address line of the EPROMs all to GND and see what happens.
What happened to the IC from the vacated PLCC socket?


Thank you for the service manual link and reply too! This unit is German origin so I guess it includes German language TOS or two of them, like you said. So I want to find 6 chip UK Rainbow TOS for it.

For empty PLCC see my previous reply.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Robson » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:39 pm

http://www.atari-computermuseum.de/pics ... 3-001d.JPG

The cart i was talking about is for st only: St,stf,stfm. i have a look i probably have few donor boards i can send 1 chip for you for free. no matter if you buy the cart or not i would only charge the postage for the chip.
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:53 pm

Robson wrote:http://www.atari-computermuseum.de/pics/systeme/st/c070523-001d.JPG

The cart i was talking about is for st only: St,stf,stfm. i have a look i probably have few donor boards i can send 1 chip for you for free. no matter if you buy the cart or not i would only charge the postage for the chip.


That would be awesome and I do want to have that diganostic cart too since I want to have equal repair skills for Atari ST series like I have for Amiga and C64 series. Please PM me Paypal invoice for the cart and shipping costs to Finland.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:29 am

Hanzu wrote:
Robson wrote:So this 1040STF was sold to me without MMU in an AS IS condition ebay auction. I guess that is the reason why it gives black screen. What is the part number for suitable MMU and do you have a place to recommend for me trying to get one?


Try Best electronics or B & C Computervisions. I don't know what the part number, sorry. Good luck!
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby exxos » Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:33 pm

I have all the chips in stock, probably a lot cheaper than BEST.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:09 am

exxos wrote:I have all the chips in stock, probably a lot cheaper than BEST.


U15 MMU part number is C025912-38 and I already received it and the diagnostic cart from Robson. However with MMU installed correctly still only dark grey screen appears. With the cart and null-modem cable plugged the cart activates in the terminal program. The RAM test is ok, MMU test also,
but for O.S ROM test it gives this:
http://relay.pp.fi/Atari/1040STF/C07052 ... 20Test.png

Amazing that it identified that custom 1.0/1.4 TOS as German 1.4, but still gives cs (check sum?) error. I think I need to go for 6 chip 1.4 UK/US TOS. Anyone can sell it cheaper than cruel prizes and shipping rates at Best Electronics or B & C Computervisions? Does not need to be original for me, but cs numbers have to be correct when using the diagnostic cart.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby exxos » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:06 am

If they are not original ROM's to start with, the checksum may not match anyway due to the "fill number" in the end of the ROM. I have lots of 6 chips TOS, I have added them into my store http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/store.htm
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:39 am

exxos wrote:If they are not original ROM's to start with, the checksum may not match anyway due to the "fill number" in the end of the ROM. I have lots of 6 chips TOS, I have added them into my store http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/store.htm


TOS chip part numbers to help identification:

http://emulators.com/gemul8r.htm
http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/custom-i.htm

Let me know if there are more complete lists somewhere.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:49 am

The versions are already listed on my store page..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:02 am

A set of orginal RAINBOW TOS 1.4 did not cure the problem and the diagnostic cart is not giving me any clue either.

Since there are no picture and SHIFTER chip is socketed, I plan to change a known working SHIFTER to this motherboard.

Anyone know if these two SHIFTERs are drop-in compatible?
http://relay.pp.fi/Atari/1040STF/C07052 ... IFTERs.JPG

The original with unknown condition:
C025914-38A
PH23-024
6 M1 37

The working replacement:
iMP
C070713-002
(C) ATARI 1987
-31 I10356-01
8830VFD
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Arne » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:26 am

You may have to decrease Vcc to the IMP Shifter by ~0.6V (use a 1N4148). It depends, I'm not sure as I try to stay away of that IMP crap.

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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Robson » Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:50 am

So is it all works fine now through the null-modem and you can see all diags running fine on PC?

What is the monitor/Connection you're using, I can't recall if you said it before.
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:21 am

Robson wrote:So is it all works fine now through the null-modem and you can see all diags running fine on PC?

What is the monitor/Connection you're using, I can't recall if you said it before.


MODEM-port gives diagnostic info via null-modem cable to Putty.exe set to 9600bps in PC:

Mega and ST Filed Service Diagnostic Rev 4.4
1M RAM
Keyboard rev 2
60 Hz
Version 1.4 USA NTSC

RAM test Pass
O.S. ROM test Pass
Timing MFP, Glue Timing, Video test Pass
Audio test (all audible = Pass)
Keyboard test Pass

Picture changes from total black to dark grey, if I toggle video output--50/60 Hz to 60 Hz mode with V-key and between the toggle I see one or two light grey vertical bars for a second.

Tested with 2 PSUs
Tested with 2 sets of TOS
SHIFTER of this mobo tested in another 1040STFM and it gives video output there.

Using LG FLATRON M2294D, SCART-RCA adapter, RCA 3x audiovideo cable. Works ok with the working 1040STFM.
http://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/lg-M2294D-lcd-monitor
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Robson » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:27 am

Hold on, STF will not generate a composite signal for you. STFM works because of the Modulator.

I use a ST 13 pin to scart cable, then a scart to hdmi adapter on mine, works fine.
You have display issue, i think the ST is fine now.
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:40 am

Robson wrote:Hold on, STF will not generate a composite signal for you. STFM works because of the Modulator.

I use a ST 13 pin to scart cable, then a scart to hdmi adapter on mine, works fine.
You have display issue, i think the ST is fine now.


Ah! You must be right. I do use ST 13-pin to RCA/COMPOSITE audiovideo cable and not the modulator output of STFM, but somehow the missing modulator circuitry results this? I have to go somewhere with a TV with real RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO input and see what happens there.

Also I wonder if I need to do hardware modifications because of the TOS change from DE PAL to US NTSC? Both STFM and STF seem to boot with 60 Hz as the diag cart tells me.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Robson » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:26 pm

Hanzu wrote:Ah! You must be right. I do use ST 13-pin to RCA/COMPOSITE audiovideo cable and not the modulator output of STFM, but somehow the missing modulator circuitry results this? I have to go somewhere with a TV with real RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO input and see what happens there.

Also I wonder if I need to do hardware modifications because of the TOS change from DE PAL to US NTSC? Both STFM and STF seem to boot with 60 Hz as the diag cart tells me.


I don't think that would help at all, simply Pin 2 is not used on the STF, the composite signal is generated by the modulator. Have a look at the schematics. You'd need a solution using the RGB signals (or the monochrome).

Get UK Tos, that should boot 50Hz by default. There is a program to switch 50/60Hz though. It's called Go5060, easy to find on the forum.
It's worth checking what you'd use the st for..no reason to change the TOS to 50Hz if the only game you'd ever use it with switches it to 60 when loading :).
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:41 pm

Robson wrote:
Hanzu wrote:Ah! You must be right. I do use ST 13-pin to RCA/COMPOSITE audiovideo cable and not the modulator output of STFM, but somehow the missing modulator circuitry results this? I have to go somewhere with a TV with real RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO input and see what happens there.

Also I wonder if I need to do hardware modifications because of the TOS change from DE PAL to US NTSC? Both STFM and STF seem to boot with 60 Hz as the diag cart tells me.


I don't think that would help at all, simply Pin 2 is not used on the STF, the composite signal is generated by the modulator. Have a look at the schematics. You'd need a solution using the RGB signals (or the monochrome).

Get UK Tos, that should boot 50Hz by default. There is a program to switch 50/60Hz though. It's called Go5060, easy to find on the forum.
It's worth checking what you'd use the st for..no reason to change the TOS to 50Hz if the only game you'd ever use it with switches it to 60 when loading :).


So 13-pin to SCART cable is a way to go for both 1040STF and 1040STFM. I thing I will cut VIDEO RCA and solder a SCART connector to replace it, if I only find good pinout instructions. Peeling some cable and soldering is not a problem for me.

There were no 1.04 UK (PAL) TOS in 6 chips available for purchase, that is why I had to go to US (NTSC) version, which was a little bit of mistake, which I will correct later with different solution.
Last edited by Hanzu on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby troed » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:14 pm

Hanzu wrote:So 13-pin to SCART cable is a way to go for both 1040STF and 1040STFM. I thing I will cut VIDEO RCA and solder a SCART connector to replace it, if I only find good pinout instructions. Peeling some cable and soldering is not a problem for me.


More information here: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _INTERFACE

(I would be somewhat surprised if your composite RCA cable contained all the cables needed for RGB SCART)

I've ordered from here several times: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mic ... ters/atari

/Troed

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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:22 pm

troed wrote:
Hanzu wrote:So 13-pin to SCART cable is a way to go for both 1040STF and 1040STFM. I thing I will cut VIDEO RCA and solder a SCART connector to replace it, if I only find good pinout instructions. Peeling some cable and soldering is not a problem for me.


More information here: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _INTERFACE

(I would be somewhat surprised if your composite RCA cable contained all the cables needed for RGB SCART)

I've ordered from here several times: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mic ... ters/atari

/Troed


You are right, it has only 3 wires. :oops:
I was about to order here: http://stores.ebay.com/Der-Kabelspezial ... 34.c0.m322

Shipping is somehow always cheaper here from Germany than from UK, but have to compare with your link. Thanks.
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Re: Atati 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:16 am

troed wrote:
I've ordered from here several times: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/mic ... ters/atari

/Troed


Actually retro gaming cables.co.uk is way cheaper in shipping and price:
€16.19 + €4.78 (shipping) = €20.98 but Availability: Pre-Order

Kabelspezialist.de cable does not have RCA audio branch for converter use and it does not look like shielded cable either. Sent a question to verify that.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-260-520-1 ... 54245d48d1

Any other place to recommend?
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Re: Atari 1040STF motherboard revision C070523-001 REV. D repair help needed

Postby Hanzu » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:32 am

Cable arrived: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-260-520-1 ... 54245d48d1 and this Atari finally works. To conclude problems were:

Missing MMU, about 5 bent TOS pins and a wrong type of video cable I used (3 wire composite cable does not work without a modulator).

Issue solved! Thank you everyone for your help!

Now concentrating to repair my Atari Falcon with a black screen.
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