Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

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So, now we've seen the results, should I have bothered?

Yes, it was worth just the novelty
8
100%
No, what a load of rubbish
0
No votes
Maybe, as long as you could actually use it
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 8

AtariLikerMan0
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Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:36 pm

EDIT: Click here for solution: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23983#p217935
___________________________________


OK, I'm a new user but at my total wits end! I've scoured the Net and raped my collection for DOS floppies and downloaded and bought different versions of Ditto.

But how the HELL did they ever find the right DOS disk to get PC Ditto running? Does anybody know the right one because I'm well agitated about this, way out of proportion and beyond the scope of what matters by now!



You can see what I looked at by going here, my little topic post on STs I've been using: http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic. ... 248#p91248
Last edited by AtariLikerMan0 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby wongck » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:20 pm

Dunno, but there's several here, hope one works for you.
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/dos.html

BTW, your's the software solution?
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby nativ » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:44 pm

I am not sure if all Dos versions would work in theory, you need a single disk version though I am guessing? I vaguely recall using v 3 I will search and see if I can archive the disk I have.
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:48 pm

wongck wrote:Dunno, but there's several here, hope one works for you.
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/dos.html

BTW, your's the software solution?


I tried those. But thanks anyway. The thought occurs that I could install DOS and then have that make a system disk but I don't fancy retrograding a serviceable PC for an outside chance - I think I already have copies of similar. And those failed.

And it would be a software solution, yes. I could get a 286 hardware kit but I'm 'only' using my little STs and Steem to plug gaps in my main PC-based studio setup.





And thanks for your help Nativ. I hope that would do the trick if you're successful.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Mug UK » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:28 pm

DOS v3.2 in .IMG format was found here - http://www.mediafire.com/?cuk73t2a2tjddju - via this page: http://www.computing.net/answers/dos/ms ... 17282.html - which also discusses the various tools (Windows & Linux-based) to write the .IMG file back to a 720K disk.

A freeware Windows option is: http://www.ghacks.net/2010/11/01/win32- ... r-windows/


Also try here (down the page, a lot): http://www.oldcomputers.it/info/doslife/stuff.html

DOS v3.3 is on the above link that was posted, but I'd try the v3.2 one first. (http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/dos.html?page=1)
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:27 pm

Thanks to everyone, for all your help. Very very much. And such quick replies. What a warm welcome.


Still nothing I'm afraid. I made sure I extracted to a 720K blue floppy. One still in excellent condition. I did the runs on both XP and Windows ME machines. I made sure the files were legible for the ST. The disk drives on all machines, of course, are clean and running well. I ran PC Ditto.



Starting DOS.....


Invalid system disk
Replace the disk, and then press any key



I've flooded my hard disk with DOS disks. Looks my only copy of Ditto that gets as far as the emulation screen may also be faulty.

Does anyone also have a copy of that they can point me to, excluding the ones below? Even one I bought off Ebay doesn't get past the ST's own OS.

Maybe somebody knows of an old copy on some ftp place somewhere, probably now covered in dust.


_______________

http://www.emuparadise.me/Atari_ST_ROMs ... x.xx_(19xx)(Avant-Garde_Systems)[b]/118842

http://www.emuparadise.me/Atari_ST_ROMs ... 3.64_(1988)(Avant-Garde_Systems)/118841-download

http://thegamearchives.com/?val=0_2_1_0 ... 46_0_0_0_0
Last edited by AtariLikerMan0 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Mug UK » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:28 pm

I had a quick play with this and I can see the problems you're having.

I dug out a copy of the disk image of 3.64 as well as a 'files only' copy of 3.96. 3.96 did come with a DOS format utility which formatted a blank disk image without any problems at all. So I then copied the AUTOEXEC.BAT, CONFIG.SYS and COMMAND.COM from the 3.96 folder onto this disk image. Then added all the PC utils that came with 3.96.

DIdn't recognise the disk at all. It's been formatted as a DOS boot disk, has all the necessary files but won't boot. I'm wondering how I can SYS a disk image when I can't get into a DOS prompt to do the SYS to activate the DOS boot-sector.

The IMG files I checked above (for 3.3) are 1.4MB in size, so STEEM doesn't like them at all.

So my next suggestion would be to format a 720K disk using FastCopy as an MS-DOS disk, copy the files from PC Ditto onto it and see if that works. But I still wouldn't be able to SYS it (if indeed that's needed) as none of my PCs have got floppy disk drives any more :(
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:16 pm

Your troubles in emulation mirror mine in the 'real' world. My ST won't read 1.44 meg floppies, so copied the vitals from one to the other, the 720K. Or, in the case of the earlier DOSes, the lot to a wiped 720K.




Had a bit of trouble with that last suggestion. I downloaded and ran FastCopy 2.11 but found no command to format a floppy, in/for DOS standard or otherwise. I thought it was only MS-DOS format floppies you ever had, regardless of capacity.


Pity about that. I was looking forward to the novelty of playing with some old PC programs on the ST. And I can't say I fancy tampering with my 1040 STe for an upgrade kit like this one on Ebay now.

Image

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-520-104 ... 316wt_1022


Major bafflement - Aftersales service aside, if it's this hard for us, with our Internets and FTPs and accumulated knowledge, how heavier must it have been for users in the '80s to get it right? I don't think any DOS disk ever came with Ditto.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Mug UK » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:22 pm

I might dig out my USB Floppy drive and see if I can write back these .img files to a 720K disk tomorrow night
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:28 pm

Oh that would be FABULOUS!

Thank you so much.


All I've got to offer in return is a picture of my new second-hand Atari 1040 on a stool, swapped for some CDs and £20. How prices have dropped.


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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby wongck » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:17 pm

I recall seeing some MS DOS images next to PC Ditto archives on the web, but I did not try them as I reckon it will not work on a Falcon/CT63 system.
Let me find them....
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby wongck » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:36 pm

Ok found them: here.

Try these, they are in .ST format, so you need to write them back to floppy using tools.
( some one will tell you how... or see AF Wiki )

As they are in .ST format, my assumption is that they will make a system disk in Atari format.
Bear in mind I have not tried them !!!
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Jake/Depression » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:34 am

Version 3.3 not are in planetemu, so i attachment it here too.
(Not tested. Floimg cannot read disk boot in disk what i normally used, so i imaged another disk where read MS-Dos 3.3 and Gw-basic 3.22.)
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:19 am

Thanks Wongck. I use Floppy Imaging And File Transfer V. 1.02 PP 2006-11. Now....



Starting DOS.....


Keine Systemdiskette, oder Diskettenfehler!
Diskette einlegen und eine Taste drücken!



German this time, which at least suggests the program's communicating, rather than just being busted.


A change in PC Ditto made no difference: http://planetemu.net/index.php?section= ... &id=512318



Gah!


Jake's DOS 3 (mirrored here: http://www.leftiness.org/DOS33.rar ).......



Starting DOS.....


Schneider PC/AT MS-DOS 3.30A (V1.1)
Copyright 1988 Schneider Rdf. AG
Copyright 1981-87 Microsoft Corp.

...


Etc.



At last! Last Chance Saloon does it again.



Thank you everyone for such fantastic service. I thought I'd never get this picky little git up and running.

________

Well, juddering. My joke DOS programs crash it and they're possibly the crudest floppy programs ever done. Even in hi-res. And if you're after a tune, you'll be sat there all night, even with the DOS 2.1 'bas' programs I found.

http://www.dustybin.org.uk/AuberUtils.zip

Runs no BASIC either, outside GW. Is this truly the IBM 5150 experience?! I know it was bad and the ST can't do everything even that did, but...


Image

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Mug UK » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:46 pm

Just tried it now .. brought back horrible memories of my parents' first PC - an Amstrad 286 with a dot matrix printer for doing my HND homework on!

DOS33_001.jpg


Only for novelty value. Better off picking up an old Pentium 2 base unit and using that if you're desperate for old skool DOS days (and don't forget DOS 6.22, QEMM, Memmaker and all the fun of getting more than one game to work at a time!) :)
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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby nativ » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:20 pm

I managed to get my college pascal projects running on it which was amusing at the time.....

Might have tried to run gorila on it too?

It's not too slow really in comparison to the PCee's of the time!
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:54 pm

Well at least you can actually run stuff on Ditto, crude though it is. Any gripe I have is that it 'only' emulates MDA, the crudest graphics system there was. Mode 7 black and white text or nothing, so I found.

And even then, that was common with period PC emulators, Ditto maybe the cheapest. Even the Archimedes wasn't supposed to have its DOS emulator used for anything more than the likes of 1-2-3 and only the Amiga's one cut any mustard. (And even then only with a bathroom door-size card in.)


I dunno, maybe that Mac emulator, Spectre, was a better bet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2g0Fo4PdeE



If you're after truly useless, only-for-the-novelty crap, see the Shado interpreter for the Commodore.

Image
Look at it - failed to run ANYTHING proper, even with a program from the BBC Micro manual.

I covered THAT for the novelty: http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8465





I do have older PCs as it happens, two Compaq Pentium III's with 128 megs Ram and around 600 megs processing. They really handle my retro needs, including Steem for studio work. I just like my little oddities up and running.




But for now I'll see what, if any, 30 year-old text-mode software I can dig up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEnRUiqIIjY

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby nativ » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:50 pm

There are a couple of good ZX emulators!

The ZX81 one works really well,

There is Speccy a 48k emulator that is ok on STs ( and has some software to 'record' tapes or play them via the printer port! )

and Specci ? which has a part GEM interface and runs really quite well at 16Mhz
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

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http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Ooooo.

Having a go on Speccy now. How do you load the .sna files?



Image


I liked many of the games but to type on it, even the tiniest things to get stuff running.. I HATED the bloody Spectrum.



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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby Nyh » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:10 pm

AtariLikerMan0 wrote:Well at least you can actually run stuff on Ditto, crude though it is. Any gripe I have is that it 'only' emulates MDA, the crudest graphics system there was. Mode 7 black and white text or nothing, so I found.

And even then, that was common with period PC emulators, Ditto maybe the cheapest. Even the Archimedes wasn't supposed to have its DOS emulator used for anything more than the likes of 1-2-3 and only the Amiga's one cut any mustard. (And even then only with a bathroom door-size card in.)

With PC speed DOS emulation on the Atari was excellent. With AT Speed and AT Speed C-16 the emulation speed was more than excellent.

It wasn't bad on the graphics department either: It emulates CGA and Tandy 1000 graphics cards on color ST monitors. On monochrome monitors, AT-Speed emulates the Hercules and Olivetti monochrome graphics cards as well as two-color CGA.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby nativ » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:17 pm

AtariLikerMan0 wrote:Ooooo.

Having a go on Speccy now. How do you load the .sna files?


http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/faq/emu_atar.html


Those are them!

hmm.. been a while try hitting help? undo or an f key (f4? ) this should bring up a dialog.

You should have menus for 'settings' ... keyboard overlay ( just a picture ) and fileselector...

If the program is in the directory you can 'j' LOAD "filename" and it will run!

Think there is a z80 sna tool with it too. Bumpy from Loriciel works well
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:36 pm

I hit the F keys in sequence and nothing came up. I tried the 'j'-LOAD crap (which always did pee me off) but I don't know what button to press for the quotes.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby nativ » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:53 pm

AtariLikerMan0 wrote:I hit the F keys in sequence and nothing came up. I tried the 'j'-LOAD crap (which always did pee me off) but I don't know what button to press for the quotes.



it's in your picture symbol shift P

try ins "insert'

will have a look tomorrow...
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby AtariLikerMan0 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:06 pm

If you'd be so kind, thank you.

I did try all kinds of key combinations to get that symbol-shift pressed. If there are no menus when you say there are, it could be this emulator's the one which is faulty.

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Re: Which MS-DOS system disk for PC Ditto PLEASE?!

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:16 pm

At that time, it was quite something.
I remember having a go at PC Ditto, even running Norton Index at that time.
Most generic text based applications ran OK.
Slow as hell.... so it as good as useless. :oops:
Just good for bragging that I can do it on the Atari, around the coffee table but refrain from actually showing it off :lol:

At that time I had a loan 286 from work to do remote support.... so.... :mrgreen:
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63/CTPCI+ATI+RTL8139+USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list


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