TT030 & connectivity to the new world

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dexterslab
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TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:09 pm

i have my old TT running here, basically what i used to use during the early 90s. It's been upgraded a few times, has a MegTT board with 32mb and a crazy dots 2 video card.

anyway, i'd like to have some mechanism to allow me to easily transfer data from it to my windows pc. i have 100s of disks in boxes i'd like to transfer to the pc as disk image files for safe and long term-storage. I will also be keeping the TT long-term so a permanent neat solution is needed.

Have seen the posts about satandisk which look good, but what other options do i have?

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby bj » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:12 pm

Previously I've used an Iomega Jaz Drive. They are SCSI drives with removeable cartridges - 1GB or 2GB in size. This works well as you have a SCSI connector on the TT. The Satandisk works well on a TT & is probably a neater solution nowadays.
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:25 am

thanks bj, i think a flash/solid state based system would work best for me, i dont want the clutter/hassle of supporting old tech on the pc. So thinking about it SD/MMC or CF card would be preferable.

just looking at this along with a ide/cf adaptor to replace my internal hdd with a compact flash:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0042791867

i'm sure i could double this up in the hard disk bay, cut a small slot in the side and have one card as my main drive with another one removeable without having to take things to bits and keeps everything internal

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby lp » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:56 am

If you search old threads, you can also find some posts about SCSI to PCMCIA and the like, with a small CF adapter you can also accomplish the same task. I also use some 1.2gb PCMCIA cards as well, so no adapter needed. This is what I did before going with ethernet. Hacking up the case was not an option for me.

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:32 pm

thanks lp sounds similar to what i'm thinking of...

has anyone actually tried SCSI -> IDE -> Compact Flash on a TT?

has anyone tried or knows of the adaptor card on ebay i posted up earlier?

one thing i need to do is convert over to HDDRIVER as i'm using ICD drivers at the moment and IIRC it's not DOS enough for windows to read it (can someone confirm this for me?)

sorry for all the questions, i'm really rusty on the atari front :oops:

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby Frank B » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:09 pm

I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered my TT had an ASCI port. You should be able to use Ultra Satan on it :)

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:04 pm

yea the ultrasatan looks great, though would prefer scsi version for internal mounting into the TT

will very likley order that SCSI -> IDE board just to try it out

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:54 am

dexterslab wrote:yea the ultrasatan looks great, though would prefer scsi version for internal mounting into the TT

will very likley order that SCSI -> IDE board just to try it out


I have not tried internal mounting on my TT but have several SCSI-IDE on the external case. I have a short writeup on my webpage.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:46 pm

wongck wrote:
dexterslab wrote:yea the ultrasatan looks great, though would prefer scsi version for internal mounting into the TT

will very likley order that SCSI -> IDE board just to try it out


I have not tried internal mounting on my TT but have several SCSI-IDE on the external case. I have a short writeup on my webpage.


fantastic, thanks for that... looks to be the same card i'm about to buy.

I'll get one ordered and see about mounting internally, if all goes well it'll have a compact flash card rarther than a hard disk so should fit easily in the drivebay

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:10 pm

dexterslab wrote: if all goes well it'll have a compact flash card rarther than a hard disk so should fit easily in the drivebay


Good luck.
The SCSI-IDE was made for CD drive, so it alignes correctly with CD drives.
It is protuding on one side when mounted on a HDD.

A compact flash will gives more room to place it. I do have a compact flash adapter but not tried it myself.
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:30 pm

i've had a few compact flash cards running on ide ports and never had any issues... fingers crossed it will work ok on the SCSI-IDE adaptor as well

the neat thing is how cheap compact flash cards are, even though it's not hot-swappable it should mean i can easily swap and change things around easily when i need to if i cut a small slot in the front of the TT drivebay

i ordered all the bits last night, will post an update with pics when it all arrives.

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby artik-wroc » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:55 pm

I use Yamaha SCSI-IDE adaptor and IDC-CF installed inside my TT. All works well.

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:40 pm

bits arrived, unfortunatly the disk of the new copy of HDDRIVER i just bought is bad... or more to the point the HDDRUTIL.APP file is, of all the files why that one!? I HATE FLOPPY DISKS! :evil:

i have no disk drives on any of my PCs and i dont even know of anyone who has a floppy disk drive anymore. Thankfully though i do have a USB FDD drive on it's way from china via ebay.

I did try and do something with the ICD Pro utilities, it found the flash drive and it seemed to partition/format ok so looks like it should all work in the end when i get HDDRIVER running :roll:

just need my FDD to turn up!

scsi_cf.jpg
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby lp » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:17 pm

Send the author the serial number off the disk via e-mail and explain the situation, he will check it, trust me. If he finds it's a legal copy he will e-mail you an working archive.

http://www.seimet.de/de/imprint.html

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:31 pm

lp wrote:Send the author the serial number off the disk via e-mail and explain the situation, he will check it, trust me. If he finds it's a legal copy he will e-mail you an working archive.

http://www.seimet.de/de/imprint.html


i have a copy via email allready... just no means to get it to the TT!

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:24 pm

well after much faffing i managed to get hddriver onto a disk

right, started with hddriver, it found the SanDisk card attached to the scsi adaptor, so loaded the utility app, created some partitions and it reported it could not write 'administrative sectors'. So i changed the jumper on the scsi adaptor from DMA to PIO (PIO is slower so figured it might be better). Went back and tried the same... sucsess!

Went to initialize partition and there's nothing listed! So i tried rebooting and one of the partitions appears in the initialize partition dialog, so i formatted that one, rebooted and there's two there now so formatted the other one. Installed hddriver onto the first partition for autoboot, it sometimes locked up or bombed during boot.

During this i also notice that while the hddriver is loaded my floppy disk become really unreliable, reporting 'was unable to read the disk' etc

really not going well in summary...

so i try the icd pro 655 drivers, driver finds the drive no problem but then i have trouble partitioning, so i swap back from PIO that hddriver preferred to DMA and the icd utils are able to partition now... weird. Anyway partitioning and formatting works much better. So i get some partitions running and start copying some files around, found it would freeze copying some files to the hdd from the fdd... well after some bombs and freezes i gave up

i never had problems like this with the scsi hdd (using a slightly older version of the icd pro drivers), so tomorrow i'll go back to my normal hdd and do some tests

anyone got any ideas? - other people seem to have this working!

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby nativ » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:14 pm

Hi,

Am I right to think you have a SCSI > SD adapter?

If so please can you tell me where to find one?


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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:25 pm

SCSI -> IDE -> CF

have seen IDE -> SD on ebay though

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:41 am

tested this morning with my usual setup... bombs & freezing :roll:

so whatever the SCSI->IDE thing is doing there's more going on here with the machine itself.

I think i'll start a new thread about this, it could be a lot of things...

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:56 pm

Check the terminators.
I think the TT configuration with the internal drive has some terminator resisters around the ribbon area.
Some TT do not have the terminator resistors but the HDD is terminated.
So check to see where the terminators are and set them appropriately on the IO-Data.
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:03 pm

dexterslab wrote: so i try the icd pro 655 drivers, driver finds the drive no problem but then i have trouble partitioning, so i swap back from PIO that hddriver preferred to DMA and the icd utils are able to partition now... weird.


This does not sound good. Normally, for me, if one utility complains about something wrong, the alternative utility will also complain about it.
Your issue sounds like some intermitten problem.

The IO-Data default settings are for ATAPI devices. If you are using a HDD like device, you need to reconfigure it to do ATA instead. Also try to change to SCSI-1 for IO-Data.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:09 pm

thanks wongck, i tried pretty much every conceivable combination to try and identify the problem, nothing seemed to help though i will double check

i've had the case off this afternoon and spotted the termination packs are missing from the motherboard, my old Quantum hard disk was obviously ok with it but maybe this needs terminating properly... i just need to source some :roll:

i managed to do a speed test on it at one point, 1.8Mb/sec apparently... about 70% faster than the Quantum

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:15 am

Ok, so I took an hour to test this out on my TT.

SCSI --> SCSI-IDE --> IDE CF adapter --> CF card.

It works. I have some photos of the speed according to the Xferrate program.
Once I get them off the camera, I will post them.

The CF crad is slowest.... :(
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby dexterslab » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:24 am

thanks wongck, would love to see the pics

other than the scsi-id settings, what other jumper settings did you have on the idsc21 card?

i just tried a regular ide hard disk on the adaptor and got same results as the CF card, so it's either the isdc card or something with my TT... as i mentioned previously my scsi bus isn't fully terminated so that might be a contributing factor

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Re: TT030 & connectivity to the new world

Postby wongck » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Comparison of speed between CF memory & IDE HDD on a stock TT

This is a comparison of IDE CF, IDE HDD on a SCSi-IDE convertor and the original SCSI HDD on a stock 32MHz TT.
The SCSi-IDE convertor used is the IO-Data IDSC21-E.
The IDE CF is a Toshiba 128MB 4X CF (purchased 4 years ago).
The IDE HDD is a Maxtor 31024H1 10GB 5400 rpm UDMA HDD (manufactured Dec 2000).
The original SCSI is a Quantum LPS540S 5400 rpm.

OS Environment for all scenario: Mint 1.16, XaAES & Teradesk 4 with same disk driver.
test program : Xferrate 1.1 by Roger Burrows (Anodyne) running on TOS box in Mint.

Results:
CF on SCSI-IDE = 1190 -1240 KB/s (66% of Original SCSI HDD speed)
HDD on SCSI-IDE = 1730 - 1800 KB/s (99% of Original SCSI HDD speed)
Original SCSI = 1750 - 1810 KB/s

Conclusion = Original SCSI is still fastest but replacement IDE HDD is much better then a CF.
(However, may be a 133X CF will fair better???)

Image
Toshiba CF with IDE-SCSI adapter. Entire device is drive C:

Image
Maxtor on IDE-SCSI adapter. Partition size of 512MB for drive C:

Image
Original SCSI HDD. partition size of 256MB for drive C:
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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