Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

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pterodactyl
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Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:34 am

I have two STE computers with TOS 2.06 and 4 MB installed. They each have a SatanDisk with 1 GB. The SatanDisk resistor mod on each unit has been performed in an effort to solve the problems I'm experiencing. I have also tried many SD cards with essentially the same results. Both machines seem to be having similar problems with data corruption. 8O I am using HDDriver 8.2. First I format the SD card (with HDDriver) and partition it for 2 or three partitions. Then I copy some typical ST tools and ACC files and try to unzip some files and get set up to do some computer music and programming work. At this point I have some sub-folders, the environment is not too nested.... :x

Then I start to notice things. :( Sometimes the filenames show garbage characters. I re-boot and it's back to normal. Then ST-ZIP 2.6 stops working - just bombs. I tried to install it again from the STZIP.TOS file. The file says it is corrupt and does not decompress. Gradually things worsen. For example. on one machine I'm testing the new TeraDesk 4.0 and it first ran somewhat normal but some icons were distorted. :cry: Later, Teradesk produced bombs or began to run poorly complaining that the various configuration an resource files are corrumpt. Some of these changes are affecting the SatanDisk data. I think this may be happening as I unzip new files or maybe as I delete files. Eventually the SatanDisk becomes unbootable. All of the source files are being installed from the Atari floppy drive. I don't think the Satandisk is paticularly to blame. :?

What is going on? Can I test the TOS chips for validity? Is it a DMA or MMU problem? Both machines? A virus? 8O
I take it most folks are not seeing this kind of behaviour although there have been some posts regarding SatanDisk.
Any ideas on how I can narrow this down? :megaphone:

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby christos » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:55 am

Faulty DMA chip. Known STE bug that only appears with 3rd party hd solutions.
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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby Desty » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:45 am

How common is this? Should I expect it to happen to my STE when the Ultrasatan is ready? Can it be replaced with a currently available chip?
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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby christos » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:07 am

Desty wrote:How common is this? Should I expect it to happen to my STE when the Ultrasatan is ready? Can it be replaced with a currently available chip?


Seems like only the very first batches of STE's had them. Circa 89. I don't know the exact part number but a search on this forum could bring wonders. :)
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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby Jookie » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:47 am

It might be also good to test the SatanDisk with another computer, not STE, but just ST - if it would be the same, I would blame SatanDisk. If not, then I would blame STE. Or you could try to use a SatanDisk borrowed from your friend (who works fine for your friend) and see if it does the same on your STE...

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby Chandler » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:27 am

christos wrote:Faulty DMA chip. Known STE bug that only appears with 3rd party hd solutions.


actually the faulty DMA chip will corrupt ALL devices including Atari ones and i'm sure satan disks too (anything you plug into the DMA port), i once had an Atari SH 205 that got corrupted by one of these chips

i believe Atari said this about 3rd party devices to divert their fault away from the STE, if they had admitted the fault was with the STE then people could sue them and demand refunds etc etc for damaged drives and that would have cost them dearly

info is in the link below...

http://www.notator.org/html/notator_faq.html#DMA_STe

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby CiH » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:33 pm

Everyone else got there first!

I'd say you've got an iffy DMA chip. I had this as well, some years back, and with an official Atari SH205 as well. I got mine replaced with a decent working chip from Best Electronics, so no problems since, and my STE is happy with Satandisk. 8)
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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:26 pm

OK,
I thought this might be the case. That's probably why I got these two STE's for nothing! And they look in great shape!
I will rip them open and check the DMA chips.
I hope Best still has some chips....
:|
As I understand it:
A Good Chip = C398739-001A (Atari-1990)-31

A Bad Chip = C025913-38 PH23-001A

Thanks for the posts :cheers: , I'll post the results of the checking out early next week. :coffe:

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby Chandler » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:03 pm

check to see if they are socketed too (usually they are not) they are very hard to remove due to them being soldered both sides and you must be careful when you do remove them not to damage the tracks...

you need good desoldering skills and a really good solder sucker

actually i have some old STE motherboards here that are dead but they have the good DMA hence why i kept them but they are a b$*''#] to remove

if i get some free time someday i may remove them and offer them here :)

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby Chandler » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:23 pm

$45 from best (and that doesn't include postage) 8O

better off finding another STE!

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:50 am

I had a look inside the STE that was the TeraDesk test platform as mentioned above. The DMA chip is the 'good one'.
marked on the chip...C398739-001A (Atari-1990)-31
:(

I have not opened up the other one yet.

It is wierd that both machines are exhibiting this behaviour.

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby popsel » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:43 am

Hi!

You should use a stabilized power supply set to 6V or 7.5V DC
If you set a higher voltage the Standisks internal voltage regulator ICs can overheat.
This will result in strange problems, like data loss.

I have built some Satandisks inside Atari 1040ST and noticed similar problems
if using the Atari ST internal 12V DC.

In the meantime I could fix that problem.

After setup is OK you should reformat/partition the SD-Card again to prevent
keeping already corrupted data on SD card.
Regards

Popsel

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:56 pm

I am using a 'typical' 7.5VDC 'wall wart' style power supply in each case. One was from a phone the other is an old Atari supply from something (?). The regulation may not be the greatest (no load reads 12V). I could try some different power supplies next week. :|

I have a 1024 ST as well that I'm going to test with this setup so we will see how that goes.

Everytime I recover from this I have re-formatted the SD card. I have not tried the latest procedure for DOS/TOS formatting in a PC; just the HDDriver 8.23. formatting. :angel:

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas and keep 'em coming! :cheers:

ppera

Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby ppera » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:51 pm

In't problem that some SD cards just pull too much current, what results in voltage dropping after stabilisator - and it makes data corruption ? Can some stronger stabilisator IC be used in Satandisk ? Does someone took voltmeter to check voltage after stabiliser while writing to card ?

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:56 am

OK, good thinking, :) I'll put a o'scope on it this weekend when I get back I'm on the road now. :!:

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby AtariSince1989 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Having a bad chip C025913-38 PH23-001A is guarantee of problems? Or is just question of bad luck? Thanks.
- Atari 520 STe 4MB RAM + TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 14MB RAM + TOS 4.04 + IDE-SD card HDD + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
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- Acorn A3010 4MB RAM + 40MB IDE HDD

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby AtariSince1989 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:12 pm

I have opened my 520STE today to add RAM and change the TOS to 2.06, so I have checked the famous chip.

The bad chip was identified as C025913-38 PH23-001A on this post.

Mine is: C025913-38 PH23-030. Is that a bad one? I think so, so looks like another version :(
- Atari 520 STe 4MB RAM + TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 14MB RAM + TOS 4.04 + IDE-SD card HDD + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
- Acorn A3010 4MB RAM + 40MB IDE HDD

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My FTP Server: http://www.datavase.info/FTPserver (only from Midnight to 8am UK Time)
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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby MRAtari » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:18 pm

AtariSince1989 wrote:I have opened my 520STE today to add RAM and change the TOS to 2.06, so I have checked the famous chip.

The bad chip was identified as C025913-38 PH23-001A on this post.

Mine is: C025913-38 PH23-030. Is that a bad one? I think so, so looks like another version :(


yep, it's a crap one

actually i have some STE boards i am breaking up with the good type later DMA on them

if i can get them off cleanly would anyone be interested in them? (£10 each)

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby AtariSince1989 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:26 pm

MRAtari wrote:if i can get them off cleanly would anyone be interested in them? (£10 each)


Problem is to replace the bad chip as it is soldered :(

Is there any way of just disable it and solder a good one on top? Maybe I'm asking for something silly :|
- Atari 520 STe 4MB RAM + TOS 2.06 + UltraSatan
- Atari Falcon030 14MB RAM + TOS 4.04 + IDE-SD card HDD + NVRAM mod + SCSI buffer clock mod + EtherNEC
- Amstrad CPC 6128 + HxC USB Floppy Emulator
- Acorn A3010 4MB RAM + 40MB IDE HDD

Atari ST Essential software (The List)
My FTP Server: http://www.datavase.info/FTPserver (only from Midnight to 8am UK Time)
My music at http://soundcloud.com/datavase/

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:31 pm

The chips can safely and easily be removed off a board destined for the garbage by using a heat gun like one for heat-shrinking tubing. The SMD parts just drop off! :) Not recomended for work on good boards however, as the board will likely be damaged by the heat! :(

I O' scoped and metered the Satandisk 5V and 3.3 V supplies and did not see any droops or artifacts when executing a large un-zip on a file on drive C (the Satandisk with a 1 GB SD). I will do more checking this evening. I also tried formatting a 128MB SD card in my PC (FAT 16) with hopes of creating a PC-Atari transfer chip. When placed in the STE the SD partitioning step failed and the chip was unreadable by either system. I really think something is wrong with the STE. I'll try some more SD cards soon. Are there any utilities to test the inner working of the STE to determine if it is a MMU problem or a Floppy Drive Controller problem? I'm thinking that since all my efforts to load software and fles to the SD card are using the Floppy Drive, the data corruption itself may be coming from the FDC as data is read into the STE. :? Is there error checking on this stream.

As I understand it, TOS 2.06 self checks the TOS ROM checksums when TOS is started. So if they work, I can assume the TOS ROMs are not to blame. Is this correct? I burned these TOS chips myself from a master set of TOS 2.06 ICs.

Is it recomended that I replace electrolytics in the STE? Any in particular? :|

I have a ST 1024 with TOS 1.04 that I'll try with the Satandisk as well to see if that works properly. :wink:

It is still curious to me that BOTH STE's have this problem..... I feel I have to solve this and it must be solveable! I have some ST Mega2's kicking around that I could take parts off of - if they are compatible. Does anyone know if the MMU or FDC chips in the ST Mega 2 are the same as the STE? :idea:

If I get these STE's up and running I hope to perform the HD FD mods so I can use 1.4 MB floppies. They will then be used in my computer music studio. :coffe:

Thanks for your ideas. If anyone has any more ideas or info please post! :cheers:

ppera

Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby ppera » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:40 pm

AtariSince1989 wrote:..
Is there any way of just disable it and solder a good one on top? Maybe I'm asking for something silly :|


It is usually possible by keeping chip selection lines on high level. Of course, you must cut those pins, or leads to them.
Not really recommended. Even inactive chip consumes some power and loads data, adress and control lines.
Get vacuum pump for couple bucks and desolder chip.

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby MRAtari » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:06 pm

if anyone is interested i have 1 good DMA chip spare - £10

it's been desoldered and tested ok (picture is for illustartion only)

good DMA below

Image

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Re: Data corruption with STE and SatanDisk

Postby pterodactyl » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:42 am

My IC does not look like that. Was that one out of an STE? 8O

I now have a 1024ST runnng TOS 1.04 with one of the SatanDisk units and a 1 gig card partitioned to two drives. No problems yet that I have detected. :) With the level of complexity the SatanDisk contents is now at I would say this would indicate the problems lie in the STEs. :|

So now any suggestions on data corruption in an STE? :megaphone:


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