NetusBee?

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CopperCAT
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby CopperCAT » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:46 am

Jookie wrote:I can get RTL8019 for $7.75, and I can get the ENC28J60 for $7.4 - they cost almost the same :)
Jookie


Can you tell me where you got them? I would really like to build a netusbee :)

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Jookie
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby Jookie » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:06 am

CopperCAT wrote:Can you tell me where you got them? I would really like to build a netusbee :)


www.sos.sk - they accept also orders from other countries...

Jookie

ppera

Re: NetusBee?

Postby ppera » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:00 am

krupkaj wrote:That is interesting. I have EtherNEC (what is predecessor of NetUSBee) on my TT and Falcon and writing is faster than reading. Reading from network is around 150-200KB per second while writing is around 250+ KB per second. For networking I am using mintnet. So I am curious where is the bottleneck. According to you it shoud be faster at input.


Well, reading from cartridge port may go direct, with full ST speed, what means over 1MBytes/sec . Of course it is possibility. Some other things on concrete IF may decrease speed.
Writing on TT or Falcon may be faster than on some ST - but as it is not suported by HW usually writing goes with some tricks - using address as data and similar, what means less speed (I think 3-4 times less than by burst read) . I don't know is cartridge access faster on TT or Falcon than on STs, but it may be checked with couple tests...

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby ijor » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:18 pm

krupkaj wrote:That is interesting. I have EtherNEC (what is predecessor of NetUSBee) on my TT and Falcon and writing is faster than reading. Reading from network is around 150-200KB per second while writing is around 250+ KB per second. For networking I am using mintnet. So I am curious where is the bottleneck.


I don't know where is the bottleneck, but probably has nothing to do with the write cartridge port issue.

In first place, the specific CPU has a big impact on the difference between reading and writing to the cart port. One of the reasons that writing is tipicaly slower, is that you can't normally transfer the data directly from RAM to the cart port. You must somehow process the data so that it would change the address accessed. This processing would be much faster in a Falcon or TT than in a bog plain ST.

I don't have personal experience with accessing the cart port on Falcon or TT. But my guess is that at least the TT, and probably the Falcon as well, can perform writes to the cart as fast as reads.

In second place, Ethernet, let alone TCP/IP, is much more complicated than other cart usages. There is a considerable software overhead.

Lastly, there is no interrupt support in the cart port, polling is required. Depending on the hardware, this might also be quite significant regarding transfer speed.

ppera

Re: NetusBee?

Postby ppera » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:42 pm

I did some measurements about cartridge - read on Falcon is faster about 30% than on ST serie. Probably cycle time is same, but cycles are more frequent due faster CPU speed.
About write: I would not care much about it. It depends in big amount from used SW - how fast can it process/transfer parameters to address registers. But to achieve same speed as by read - no way with using address lines as data. We can write max 16 bits out at once (there is 15 bit + may use UDS, LDS) - that would be very fast, but need somehow to fill address registers with some datas. For instance if want to send out some memory block we need something like:

preparing a1 that point to cart address space
move.w (a0)+,a1 *but it is signed, so may use only 15 bits, depending on bit 15 need to use UDS or LDS
*so some Rotate before is required, but it works only with data registers as I remember
*so, more lines required...
move.w (a1),d0 *fake read

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby ijor » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:13 pm

ppera wrote:I did some measurements about cartridge - read on Falcon is faster about 30% than on ST serie. Probably cycle time is same, but cycles are more frequent due faster CPU speed.
About write: I would not care much about it. It depends in big amount from used SW - how fast can it process/transfer parameters to address registers. But to achieve same speed as by read - no way with using address lines as data.


Well, the maximum cartridge speed is limited by the motherboard hardware, while the write speed is further limited by the CPU speed. No matter how faster the CPU speed, maximum read speed is achieved rather soon. Once you increase CPU speed even faster, sooner or later you get the very same speed for reads and writes. This is because you reached max read speed already, but you improved the CPU overhead when writing.

I didn't try to write a Falcon or TT optimized code, let alone test it. It is possible that the Falcon can yet reach max write speed. I'd guess that the TT does, but conceivable it doesn't. Surely faster CPUs can. You might need to do some shifting, but a 68030/20 is damn fast in shifting, and can overlap shift with bus access.

Anyway, my main point is, that the faster the CPU, the less the difference between reads and writes to the cart port. Eventually (say, a CT60 in the worst case) you can write as fast as you can read.

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby djbase » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:25 pm

Jookie wrote:I was thinking of making some faster ethernet card (with some protocol processing inside the card to offload the ST), but I realized that people probably wouldn't want yet another ethernet card for ST (and that most people don't use ST for networking anyway)...


But what about TT/Falcon user? I mean speed is ok for small files but if you have to transfer huge files it can be a nightmare. How can we motivate you to make an improved version of the Netusbee?

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby Shredder11 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:48 pm

Jookie wrote:
CopperCAT wrote:I was thinking of making some faster ethernet card (with some protocol processing inside the card to offload the ST), but I realized that people probably wouldn't want yet another ethernet card for ST (and that most people don't use ST for networking anyway)...

Jookie


Back in 2006 I waited patiently for the NetUsBee to become readily available from the maker's site.........and then he abandoned it! :roll: Anyway adding my ST to my network is very attractive for me but would I be able to use the standard TOS/GEM environment, or would I be forced into using MiNT or similar?


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