Mac Plus help?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, spiny, Greenious, Sorgelig, Moderator Team

MrSunshine
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:42 pm

Mac Plus help?

Postby MrSunshine » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:43 pm

Started messing around with the Mac core, and it is a very fun blast-from-the-past for me so far. One thing I'm trying to figure out is how to get .img files (or files that only exist as .sit files or in folders with no .anything on the individual files) into a mountable form -- either getting them onto the hard disk or turning them into readable .dsk files?

Thanks!

ericgus
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:53 am
Location: Boston MA - USA

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby ericgus » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:52 am

I think I had to use Basilisk II to mount stuff and move files around .. I created a machine in BII and would mount any disks/hard drives of interest, I also mapped a local disk folder on my computer to a folder in Basilisk .. so I could migrate files ..

vMac also comes in handy for testing in a B&W configuration .. where as Basilisk II is more the color macs (but good to move stuff around etc as its more feature rich)

MrSunshine
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby MrSunshine » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:48 pm

This is really helpful! Thanks for the advice!

One other question... several of the games I tried (Apache Strike and Ancient Art of War come to mind specifically) had graphical anomalies that definitely weren't present in the original games. Is the Mac Plus core considered to be accurate, or does it have some quirks? Could I improve results with a different BIOS or something along those lines, maybe?

ericgus
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:53 am
Location: Boston MA - USA

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby ericgus » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:24 am

MrSunshine wrote:This is really helpful! Thanks for the advice!

One other question... several of the games I tried (Apache Strike and Ancient Art of War come to mind specifically) had graphical anomalies that definitely weren't present in the original games. Is the Mac Plus core considered to be accurate, or does it have some quirks? Could I improve results with a different BIOS or something along those lines, maybe?


As far as I know there is no real active developer working on it.. I dont know if its considered 'accurate' .. but it could certainly use some love, like including the new and improved 68000 cpu core, having a working hard drive file selection mount saved in preferences , adding the new midilink serial connectivity for soft MIDI instrument music and/or virtualIModem, a virtual Hayes modem to connect to internet BBSs via the internet/telnet .. etc..

BBond007
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BBond007 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:24 am

ericgus wrote:I think I had to use Basilisk II to mount stuff and move files around .. I created a machine in BII and would mount any disks/hard drives of interest, I also mapped a local disk folder on my computer to a folder in Basilisk .. so I could migrate files ..

vMac also comes in handy for testing in a B&W configuration .. where as Basilisk II is more the color macs (but good to move stuff around etc as its more feature rich)


Yes, using Basilisk II seems like the best way to build up your MacPlus VHD.

If someone has a better way I'd be interested in hearing those methods.

I have Basilisk II running on the MiSTer HPS which makes it even more convenient as I can access both the MacPlus HD and Linux FS simultaneously to install or move stuff. --> https://youtu.be/i1sd9KeK1vQ

MrSunshine wrote:One other question... several of the games I tried (Apache Strike and Ancient Art of War come to mind specifically) had graphical anomalies that definitely weren't present in the original games. Is the Mac Plus core considered to be accurate, or does it have some quirks? Could I improve results with a different BIOS or something along those lines, maybe?


I had the same issue with Apache Strike :(

I think "BIOS" is more of a x86 PC term, but Macs do have a ROM which is the same thing. The MacPlus core has that built-in so it can't be changed.

Perhaps a newer MacOS (like 7.x) can be used.

Broderbund Star Wars is a similar game and runs really well!

I love playing that game on the MacPlus core.

ericgus
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:53 am
Location: Boston MA - USA

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby ericgus » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:36 am

BBond007 wrote:I have Basilisk II running on the MiSTer HPS which makes it even more convenient as I can access both the MacPlus HD and Linux FS simultaneously to install or move stuff. --> https://youtu.be/i1sd9KeK1vQ



OMG !!>> ... @@@!!!

How did I miss this???


Any instructions published anywhere to do this .. I need to know this dark magic..

dowdle
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby dowdle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:52 pm

I haven't gotten the Plus Too core working on the MiSTer yet. I put the two ROMs in the desired directory as well as a blank hard disk file but all I get is a floppy disk with an X in it... and never a desktop. The documentation on the MiSTer wiki is not very complete. :( So if I could get a little bit of hand holding here, that would be great. What am I doing wrong or not doing?

Any chance someone could share a hard disk image that has some minimal working environment pre-installed?

One thing I'd like to see more of is people using the computer cores to actually run computer stuff rather than being exclusively focused on loading game floppy disk images. I started computing live with a Timex Sinclair ZX81, then an Atari 600XL, Atari 800, Atari ST, and then I moved onto Linux on PC hardware... and have been working as a Linux SysAdmin for 20+ years.

BigMac740p
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BigMac740p » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:11 pm

dowdle wrote:I haven't gotten the Plus Too core working on the MiSTer yet. I put the two ROMs in the desired directory as well as a blank hard disk file but all I get is a floppy disk with an X in it... and never a desktop. The documentation on the MiSTer wiki is not very complete. :( So if I could get a little bit of hand holding here, that would be great. What am I doing wrong or not doing?

Any chance someone could share a hard disk image that has some minimal working environment pre-installed?

One thing I'd like to see more of is people using the computer cores to actually run computer stuff rather than being exclusively focused on loading game floppy disk images. I started computing live with a Timex Sinclair ZX81, then an Atari 600XL, Atari 800, Atari ST, and then I moved onto Linux on PC hardware... and have been working as a Linux SysAdmin for 20+ years.


Being a long time Mac users (My first mac was a Mac IIx Pre System 6) I've still have some floppy at home to create a MacPlus compatible boot HD. I'll will look tonight what I can do.

alanswx
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby alanswx » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:26 pm

on linux you can instal hfsutils and get hmount hls hcopy etc. You can mount the mac hard drive on linux and copy files, especially binhex files over with this tool. It should run on the mister itself if we compile it.

dowdle
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby dowdle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:55 pm

BigMac740p wrote:Being a long time Mac users (My first mac was a Mac IIx Pre System 6) I've still have some floppy at home to create a MacPlus compatible boot HD. I'll will look tonight what I can do.


Ok, I figured it out. I went and got the 6.0.8 800k floppy disk image and converted it as needed and booted from it. Then I formatted the hard disk and copied over the System folder and made it bootable. It thinks it is a Mac Plus with 512K of RAM. In a recent video they were showing it as a Mac II with 32MB of RAM... and as I have the 32MB SDRAM board for the MiSTer I'm guessing I can accomplish the same thing if I figure out how.

I see the 7.6.1 upgrade floppies on the archive.org wayback machine... but they are in .img.bin format rather than .sea.bin. So my new question is, how do I upgrade this to where it thinks it is a Mac II running 7.6.1 with 32MB of RAM?

dowdle
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby dowdle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:22 pm

BigMac740p wrote:Being a long time Mac users (My first mac was a Mac IIx Pre System 6) I've still have some floppy at home to create a MacPlus compatible boot HD. I'll will look tonight what I can do.


DUH, I finally see the RAM selector from the MiSTer OSD... so now I have 4MB of RAM.

On the upgrading-to-7.6.1 front, I found a bunch of macOS 7.x install disks in .dsk format but they are all 1.4MB in size and I assume for some other emulation product. The Plus Too doesn't support 1.4MB disks, right? On the MiSTer Wiki page, I only see reference to 400K and 800k disk images. Trying too add one of the 1.4MB .dsk files to the drive in the MiSTer OSD, it doesn't show up.

I am NOT a long-time Mac user so I'm a bit lost. I did get a letter published in MacWorld magazine (I think that was the name of it) when I was an ST owner... and I fondly remember always wanting to get a Spectre GCR from Dave Small and company but that was way out of my budget when I was in 19 or so. Back then you had to purchase a legit copy of the 128K macOS ROMs and put them in a cartridge that plugged into the Atari ST. That was some amazing stuff back then... circa 1987?!?

I've used quite a bit of MacOS X (now macOS X?) in recent years... but with the pre-X version, I'm a bit lost. I did at least remember I could copy over the System folder from the floppy to have a basic install. :) Other than that, I'm not sure if with macOS you can do "leapfrog" upgrades or if you have to walk through each update until you get all the way to the desired version?!? I'd think not. I'd expect to move the existing System folder out of the way and copy over a new one. Is that how it works? What's the best way to get from 6.0.8. (monochrome only) to 7.6.1 color?

dowdle
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:41 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby dowdle » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:42 pm

DUH, I think I was having a brain fart. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1sd9KeK1vQ) appears to be a recording of BasiliskII running on the Linux host side (HPS) of the MiSTer... and not running with the MacPlus FPGA core. DUH.

So I guess my questions about how to have a Mac II with 32MB of RAM running on what appears to be a Mac II aren't doable with the Plus Too FPGA core.

So, who is using BasiliskII on the Linux side of the MiSTer? How does one go about setting that up? I assume one has to install the XFCE desktop package for a GUI on the Linux side of the MiSTer? I'm completely lost. At least I know Linux better than most folks (having been a Linux SysAdmin for ~20 years) but I haven't really investigated the tiny Linux distro that is on the MiSTer. /etc/os-release doesn't reveal much. I've not installed the LXDE setup and given the date on it, I have to wonder if it even still works on contemporary MiSTer releases?!?

ericgus
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:53 am
Location: Boston MA - USA

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby ericgus » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:31 am

alanswx wrote:on linux you can instal hfsutils and get hmount hls hcopy etc. You can mount the mac hard drive on linux and copy files, especially binhex files over with this tool. It should run on the mister itself if we compile it.


Thanks .. but right now I would just love for the core to have an option to save the hard drive configuration.. right now it doesnt and you have to manually re-select the hard disk file every time. This core lacks some of the basic features found in even the most basic cores .. it needs a little bit of love to update it and tweak it and add even some additional basic options (like saving the current configuration that other cores have).. eg some of the improvements done with the CPU on the Amiga core could be ported etc..

alanswx
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby alanswx » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:45 pm

ericgus wrote:
alanswx wrote:on linux you can instal hfsutils and get hmount hls hcopy etc. You can mount the mac hard drive on linux and copy files, especially binhex files over with this tool. It should run on the mister itself if we compile it.


Thanks .. but right now I would just love for the core to have an option to save the hard drive configuration.. right now it doesnt and you have to manually re-select the hard disk file every time. This core lacks some of the basic features found in even the most basic cores .. it needs a little bit of love to update it and tweak it and add even some additional basic options (like saving the current configuration that other cores have).. eg some of the improvements done with the CPU on the Amiga core could be ported etc..


When we added the second hard drive we realized that the save image name isn’t working.

Please post your wish list so I can see what I’d easy and what is hard.

BigMac740p
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BigMac740p » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:46 pm

dowdle wrote:I'd expect to move the existing System folder out of the way and copy over a new one. Is that how it works? What's the best way to get from 6.0.8. (monochrome only) to 7.6.1 color?


To create a classic MacOS boot disc, you need at least two things; A working System Folder and the folder being "blessed". The first is easy, as you said, you can copy a System Folder over another volume. But the blessing part need some special tools, so the best avenue is to use the installer programs you can found on a System 6 boot disk.

Currently the MacPlus core only emulate monochrome macs with a 68000 cpu. System 7 should be able to run on it, but I think the best version should be 6.0.8.

BigMac740p
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BigMac740p » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:50 pm

dowdle wrote:So, who is using BasiliskII on the Linux side of the MiSTer? How does one go about setting that up? I assume one has to install the XFCE desktop package for a GUI on the Linux side of the MiSTer? I'm completely lost. At least I know Linux better than most folks (having been a Linux SysAdmin for ~20 years) but I haven't really investigated the tiny Linux distro that is on the MiSTer. /etc/os-release doesn't reveal much. I've not installed the LXDE setup and given the date on it, I have to wonder if it even still works on contemporary MiSTer releases?!?


Yesterday, I've installed the LXDE on my Mister, it's working really great. Having a Ubuntu installation with a package manager (apt) is a charm, you can upgrade the distro once installed without any issues. Check out the wiki everything you need is there: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... ktop-Linux

Sorgelig
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 6103
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am
Location: Russia/Taiwan

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:58 pm

BigMac740p wrote:you can upgrade the distro once installed without any issues.

be careful, you can't upgrade the kernel as it's very specific to MiSTer.
Also i'm not sure about upgrade the rest. But should be no problem to update within the same Ubuntu version.

BigMac740p
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BigMac740p » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:04 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
BigMac740p wrote:you can upgrade the distro once installed without any issues.

be careful, you can't upgrade the kernel as it's very specific to MiSTer.
Also i'm not sure about upgrade the rest. But should be no problem to update within the same Ubuntu version.


Thanks for the warning, beside the kernel everything else appear to work, the ubuntu armhf distro seams to work just fine.

BTW, I wonder is there is any way to launch a .rbf from the linux shell? I'm doing some work remotely and I wish to re-launch the LXDE after a reboot.

ericgus
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:53 am
Location: Boston MA - USA

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby ericgus » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:48 pm

alanswx wrote:
Please post your wish list so I can see what I’d easy and what is hard.


Ill go back and check but off the top of my head

1. save configuration including hard disks (having multiple configuration named save slots would be nice - like the amiga core etc)
2. Midilink/UART -- midi & for serial port/virtual modem emulation -- virtual modem is used to call internet BBS's and such (amiga, c64, ao486 cores have this), having midi provided by midilink would also be nice for those that like the classic mac music software.
3. maybe port some of the 68K cpu core improvements over from the work done on the Amiga core (both use the same CPU).
4. frame buffer features like scaling/scan-lines etc (forget if this is in there now need to check).
5. support for easier means to transfer files to/from hard disks (some items have been discussed above - perhaps formal integration IDK)

BigMac740p
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BigMac740p » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:46 pm

alanswx wrote:
ericgus wrote:
alanswx wrote:on linux you can instal hfsutils and get hmount hls hcopy etc. You can mount the mac hard drive on linux and copy files, especially binhex files over with this tool. It should run on the mister itself if we compile it.


Thanks .. but right now I would just love for the core to have an option to save the hard drive configuration.. right now it doesnt and you have to manually re-select the hard disk file every time. This core lacks some of the basic features found in even the most basic cores .. it needs a little bit of love to update it and tweak it and add even some additional basic options (like saving the current configuration that other cores have).. eg some of the improvements done with the CPU on the Amiga core could be ported etc..


When we added the second hard drive we realized that the save image name isn’t working.

Please post your wish list so I can see what I’d easy and what is hard.


Are you the one who maintain the Mac core? I applaud you!

Here is some of my feasible wishes:
- A ethernet/slirp interface some how.

And my unrealistic dream:
- Emulate the IIci plateforme (68030/68882, Quickdraw32, 8bits PCM audio)

BBond007
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BBond007 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:11 pm

ericgus wrote:Any instructions published anywhere to do this .. I need to know this dark magic..


dowdle wrote:So, who is using BasiliskII on the Linux side of the MiSTer? How does one go about setting that up? I assume one has to install the XFCE desktop package for a GUI on the Linux side of the MiSTer? I'm completely lost. At least I know Linux better than most folks (having been a Linux SysAdmin for ~20 years) but I haven't really investigated the tiny Linux distro that is on the MiSTer. /etc/os-release doesn't reveal much. I've not installed the LXDE setup and given the date on it, I have to wonder if it even still works on contemporary MiSTer releases?!?


The link to the installer script is in the video description:

https://github.com/bbond007/MiSTer_BasiliskII

You do not need to boot LXDE.

ericgus wrote:
alanswx wrote:
Please post your wish list so I can see what I’d easy and what is hard.


Ill go back and check but off the top of my head

1. save configuration including hard disks (having multiple configuration named save slots would be nice - like the amiga core etc)
2. Midilink/UART -- midi & for serial port/virtual modem emulation -- virtual modem is used to call internet BBS's and such (amiga, c64, ao486 cores have this), having midi provided by midilink would also be nice for those that like the classic mac music software.
3. maybe port some of the 68K cpu core improvements over from the work done on the Amiga core (both use the same CPU).
4. frame buffer features like scaling/scan-lines etc (forget if this is in there now need to check).
5. support for easier means to transfer files to/from hard disks (some items have been discussed above - perhaps formal integration IDK)


Those all seem like good suggestions:)

ericgus wrote:
Thanks .. but right now I would just love for the core to have an option to save the hard drive configuration.. right now it doesnt and you have to manually re-select the hard disk file every time. This core lacks some of the basic features found in even the most basic cores .. it needs a little bit of love to update it and tweak it and add even some additional basic options (like saving the current configuration that other cores have).. eg some of the improvements done with the CPU on the Amiga core could be ported etc..


If you name it BOOT.VHD is should automatically select it. The ability to have multiple VHDs would be really nice.
Last edited by BBond007 on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alanswx
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby alanswx » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:21 pm

Ash added a second vhd support. I need to check on it.

I think serial (and therefore ppp) is the next most important thing.

Any better way to get files on it would be great.

I will look at the other suggestions.

BBond007
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BBond007 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:59 am

alanswx wrote:Ash added a second vhd support. I need to check on it.

I think serial (and therefore ppp) is the next most important thing.

Any better way to get files on it would be great.

I will look at the other suggestions.


Serial UART support would be awesome. Thanks for looking at it!

While messing with the MacPlus core, I've noticed several games such as Defender of the Crown and a PhraseCraze(Wheel-O-Fortune) tend to freeze up, but the mouse cursor still moves.

It would be really nice if we had a "UNIX" drive (like Basilisk II) which gives access to the native Linux filesystem. I guess that might be asking too much...

alanswx
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby alanswx » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:39 am

BBond007 wrote:
alanswx wrote:Ash added a second vhd support. I need to check on it.

I think serial (and therefore ppp) is the next most important thing.

Any better way to get files on it would be great.

I will look at the other suggestions.


Serial UART support would be awesome. Thanks for looking at it!

While messing with the MacPlus core, I've noticed several games such as Defender of the Crown and a PhraseCraze(Wheel-O-Fortune) tend to freeze up, but the mouse cursor still moves.

It would be really nice if we had a "UNIX" drive (like Basilisk II) which gives access to the native Linux filesystem. I guess that might be asking too much...


Basilisk patches a bunch of traps and installs drivers to get almost all the features working. I would like to keep my days of writing 68k software behind me. I am thinking if we can get fetch working it might be the best solution. Because it expects to connect to a Unix server. It will try to do the right things.

I am going to read more about the serial chip.

BBond007
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Mac Plus help?

Postby BBond007 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:25 am

alanswx wrote:Basilisk patches a bunch of traps and installs drivers to get almost all the features working. I would like to keep my days of writing 68k software behind me. I am thinking if we can get fetch working it might be the best solution. Because it expects to connect to a Unix server. It will try to do the right things.

I am going to read more about the serial chip.


I figured that was probably the case. I mean that feature is not even available on Minimig core :)

Another serious limitation is the 20MB hd size. Can that be expanded to 10x or even 100x larger?

I was trying to install 7.5.3 but running into a wall due to this 20MB HD.


Return to “MiSTer”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ianaug23, kublai and 12 guests