Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

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gomados
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby gomados » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:18 pm

I think i broke my Misteer or my adapter.....

I tryed the last core with my hdmi to vga adapter but only red and blue was displaing i reconected the scart and now only red colour is displaying.
Normal hdmi is working well and i/o vga also, maybe adapter or fpga is broken. :?

well finally adapter just broke AG6200 2 colours blue and green, im doing more test with other adapter.
Last edited by gomados on Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

JamesF
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:38 am

I have many of the vga adapters and most of them work great, the famous Tendak doesn't work, but the cheaper ebay ones do work.
Most expect 16-235 limited range and will clip black shades if receiving full range 0-255.
Use hdmi_limited=1 with these adapters if you see missing black steps with 240p test suite and Pluge pattern.

PS. the SNES core has problem with interlaced signal with vga adapter, but not Genesis core.

Image
Last edited by JamesF on Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby paulbnl » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:02 am

Does the Ugreen adapter have the limited range issue?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:05 am

Yes.
Paul, please check the Snes interlaced signal issue with these vga adapters.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby pedranic » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:43 am

JamesF wrote:Yes.
Paul, please check the Snes interlaced signal issue with these vga adapters.


Do you recommend some over the others?

Thanks

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Lightwave » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:20 pm

JamesF wrote:I have many of the vga adapters and most of them work great, the famous Tendak doesn't work, but the cheaper ebay ones do work.


Thanks for the confirmation on the Tendak, too bad as many people use this one.

I’m thinking of getting this Rankie pigtail adapter to test, has anyone had any success with it?

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00ZMV7RL2/

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:09 pm

JamesF wrote:Most expect 16-235 limited range and will clip black shades if receiving full range 0-255.
Use hdmi_limited=1 with these adapters if you see missing black steps with 240p test suite and Pluge pattern.

weird. These converters are for VGA which has unlimited range. Are you sure it's not something else in your setup? May be your monitor/TV limits the range?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby selfslaughter » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:16 pm

Gave this a go myself tonight. Had the same AG6200 chip in my converter.
So far, so good. Works brilliantly on 240p content!

As mentioned interlaced snes stuff gets real jumpy and loses signal.
Genesis gets a bit jumpy as well in interlaced mode, but only minor compared to the snes.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes!

SNES interlaced test (YPbPr)


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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:50 pm

ADV7513 has "RGB Quantization range" on address 0x57 bits [3:2) that should be set to '10' Full Range, because the Default '00' is always Limited Range.
For some reason the ADV7513 does not use Full Range as default for RGB, and these VGA DACs read that "RGB Quantization range" flag and respect it.
I know this because the RetroTink2x has ADV7513 too and I helped Mike (creator) to tweak its HDMI output.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:17 pm

JamesF wrote:ADV7513 has "RGB Quantization range" on address 0x57 bits [3:2) that should be set to '10' Full Range, because the Default '00' is always Limited Range.
For some reason the ADV7513 does not use Full Range as default for RGB, and these VGA DACs read that "RGB Quantization range" flag and respect it.
I know this because the RetroTink2x has ADV7513 too and I helped Mike (creator) to tweak its HDMI output.

Code: Select all

hdmi_limited ? 2'b01 : 2'b10

so it's correct.

meanwhile this SNES version should work with interlace through direct video:
SNES.zip
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby selfslaughter » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am

Interlaced SNES content seems a lot better with that core.

Still bounces up and down a few pixels, but doesn't lose the video signal completely anymore.
Behaves much like the genesis does on my setup now.

Image

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 am

Okay so all ADV7513 registers are set correctly (0x16, 0x55, 0x57) in hdmi_config.sv, it is just some of these adapters 'locked' to accepts limited range only.
The black one (not tendak) accepts full range correctly, but all others only limited range, so they have different dac chips inside.
In any case, analog output user will have to check using the Pluge test pattern in 240p test suite.

SNES interlaced is not fixed yet with this posted test build.
The lines are still misaligned as in the picture above.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Peg4a » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:12 am

Hi !
I don't know how it could be possible but I have an iobard vga out connected to a 19 inch vga monitor and with this mode I have a really butter smooth video !! genesis and snes are really great. I don't have options in ini for the vga but it is better than the options activited.
Thanks sorgeling :) I hope to have this option for all cores :cheers:

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Hewhoisred » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:25 am

Purchased this adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ/

Modded it for my component connection (YPbPr) on my CRT TV per instruction.

Here are some pictures of the mod in case anyone might find them useful:
mod2.jpg

mod1.jpg


Here is a bonus shot of the hot glue for fun:
adapter.jpg


The device works fine as far as I can tell. Thank you Sorgelig.
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:48 am

Hewhoisred wrote:Here are some pictures of the mod in case anyone might find them useful:

thanks for pics!
But i suggest to cross the sides in that recessed place near VGA connector because board edges i think touch the case and that wire on edge will make board position uneven.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:11 am

Image

A - uses the same chip as Hewhoisred pictures above, it expects Limited Range.
B - Accepts Full Range, but doesn't work with current Genesis build (21 August).
C - Tendak, doesn't work.

Typa 'A': Algoltek AG6200
Type 'B': CM6616
Type 'C': Chrontel CH7101B-BF, only in the Tendak.

The Gold, White, Black adapters I've bought from the same product page on ebay with different colors,, and as you see the Gold one has the more common 'A' variant of DAC, but the White and Black has the 'B' DAC.

UGreen is best build quality but it needs Limited Range to not clip black shades. Type 'A'.
Image
Last edited by JamesF on Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:10 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Hewhoisred » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:17 am

Sorgelig wrote:
Hewhoisred wrote:Here are some pictures of the mod in case anyone might find them useful:

thanks for pics!
But i suggest to cross the sides in that recessed place near VGA connector because board edges i think touch the case and that wire on edge will make board position uneven.


Thank you for the feedback. I'm going to mod a second one of these for a friend, and I'll route those passives more intelligently on the next one. :D

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:37 am

@Sorge
The 'B' variant doesn't work with the Genesis core, but does work with Menu and Snes cores.
Another strange difference between the DAC variants.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:09 am

new SNES test for interlace mode:
SNES.zip

I think it was original bug of SNES core where fields VSync start was swapped.
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:13 am

JamesF wrote:The 'B' variant doesn't work with the Genesis core, but does work with Menu and Snes cores.

Can you make hi-res photos of your converters where chip names will be readable?
I'm curious what chips are used in B and C.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby elexor » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:30 am

Image This one works with snes core but not the genesis. and 96k hdmi audio has bad clipping.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:31 am

Snes Interlaced fixed.
Is this the same PR from paulb-nl?

My phone camera is poo so here are the on-chip names.
Typa 'A': Algoltek AG6200
Type 'B': CM6616
Type 'C': Chrontel CH7101B-BF

Gold adapter: TSC9669 (variation of the AG6200)
http://product.dzsc.com/product/273520- ... 31210.html

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Noggin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Just tested this with a "Excelvan HDMI to SDI Converter" and a PVM 20L4 with an SDI option card: Alas, "No Sync".

This would be very cool if it worked.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:50 pm

JamesF wrote:Is this the same PR from paulb-nl?

No. I've made more fixes in both PPU and direct video handling. Will commit later.

JamesF wrote:Typa 'A': Algoltek AG6200
Type 'B': CM6616
Type 'C': Chrontel CH7101B-BF

thanks for info!
AG6200 has pin MODE_EN. Unfortunately i cannot find datasheet for this chip. May be someone can find it? There are some links on chinese sites, but cannot download without account which needs phone number in China to register...
May be this MODE_EN pin sets full/limited range - need more info.

Do you have purchase link for converter on CM6616?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JamesF » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:06 pm

I bought from here (White & Black CM6616):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-Female-to ... 3263585349
Notice there are ones with 3 or 4 stripes on the plastic, my CM6616 (Black, White) have 3 stripes.
This has 4 stripes like my Gold:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1080P-HDMI-Fem ... 3816129491
You may get a AG6200 or CM6616, probably random.

@noggin
SDI is digital format and has nothing to do with analog timing.


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