CosmosEX 3.0

[Timnaber]

It has been a month since the components went to the solder house. Any Update? Have you received them back? Has ANY shipped yet?

[marss]

Reply to my message: 'Hi, so now is vacation season but end of summer we should have the main boards and we start to asembly and distribute units'

[Timnaber]

Next month is 1 year that I sent nearly $500 for two of these units, so you can see why I am upset that it is taking so long to produce. What is the projection to have them all in the hands of those that made the purchase?

If we go by DoG's post "5-10 a week so 10-20 weeks" (paraphrased) and marss post "after summer". Summer ends Sep 23. Add 10 weeks and we are at Nov 25. If 20 Weeks, Jan 27 for all to be shipped. Nearly two years for those that paid right away. Nearly 1 1/2 for me.

It is not right to take money and make the customers wait this long.

I will post in a month and see how it is going. It is all I can do.

[Greenious]

It is not right to take money and make the customers wait this long.

This is the reality for small hobby projects today. Companies prioritize bigger customers and larger orders, Shipping are also a big cost in this and spending 100's or even 1000's for overnight express shipping is not viable in projects like this.

Ppl complain as it is over the high costs of retrogear, I'm surprised that we got people still making stuff at all. (and not very surprised that some has quit maing stuff)

I'm not concerned about the wait, but I do think they could do a better job communicating what is going on.

[mikro]

Greenious, there isn't a single word I would change in your post. 100% agreed, 100% true.

[ube]

While everything Greenious wrote is 100% true, the key for a small project is communication. Almost everyone will accept any delay, as long as they’re communicated.

[Timnaber]

Another month and now I am at 1 year paid in full. No update at the website and no news here.

Someone, please post weekly about how it is going. How many have been built? How many Tested? How many shipped?

Not responding at all looks really bad, especially if you want to put out another project and expect people to buy it.

[Almerian]

It's the summer holidays time of the year, and these guys do this in their spare time, so realistically I don't expect any update until at least a week or two into September.

[Timnaber]

I do not mind waiting for anything except when money has been taken, and it has been over a year since I paid (poor guys that paid in April 2018), it seems to me that the producers need to be a little more expedient and a little more informative, regardless if it is the summer holidays or not and regardless if it is in their spare time or not.

When you take money, you are no longer in hobby territory, you are in business territory and your customers should be treated like customers, not hobbyists.

[mikro]

Timnaber: see Greenious's post, he said it all (he is not involved in the project in any way). It's exactly like that. The main guy "at the helm" does suck in posting updates and understanding the community's needs but that doesn't mean he bought a new yacht from your money. It's really like Greenious said, the company simply prefers big customers and batches of 100 pieces are somewhere in a dirty corner, waiting till they show mercy for it.

I'm sure if you find this unacceptable, you can ask for a refund. There's like 20 people in the "after queue".

I don't want to sound too harsh but yeah, if you order 1000 pieces, THEN you will be a customer. Otherwise we are in the same waters, just nobodies using big companies to cheaply produce stuff for us.

[Atarieterno]

The question is: the original developer how did he manufacture CosmosEx?
I ask without the intention to argue, it is out of curiosity because I bought the CosmosEx v2 and only waited a few months between one production and another.
Greetings.

[evil]

Timnaber: see Greenious's post, he said it all (he is not involved in the project in any way). It's exactly like that. The main guy "at the helm" does suck in posting updates and understanding the community's needs but that doesn't mean he bought a new yacht from your money. It's really like Greenious said, the company simply prefers big customers and batches of 100 pieces are somewhere in a dirty corner, waiting till they show mercy for it.

Mikro, everyone understand that it costs more to do small batches and it can take a long time to complete.

It's the lack of communication that is the real problem. When you've forked out hundreds of euros a year back, getting steady status updates is important. From a buyers point of view, it seems like a scam at this stage. It's only because of one trustworthy guy (that's you Mikro) who's telling us the project is not yet dead, that I'm still having a little hope of getting the device one day.

[Timnaber]

Timnaber: see Greenious's post, he said it all (he is not involved in the project in any way). It's exactly like that. The main guy "at the helm" does suck in posting updates and understanding the community's needs but that doesn't mean he bought a new yacht from your money. It's really like Greenious said, the company simply prefers big customers and batches of 100 pieces are somewhere in a dirty corner, waiting till they show mercy for it.

I'm sure if you find this unacceptable, you can ask for a refund. There's like 20 people in the "after queue".

I don't want to sound too harsh but yeah, if you order 1000 pieces, THEN you will be a customer. Otherwise we are in the same waters, just nobodies using big companies to cheaply produce stuff for us.

Refund is not the issue, so just take it off the table. I also do not think they have stolen the money. At least not yet.

1000 pieces, 100 or even just 1 does not matter. Small company, large or just one person does not matter. Hobby, summer holidays, spare time does not matter once you take money you just created a customer, period. It is a business transaction and the customers should be treated as such. Even if it is just to state "No news this week we are still on holiday."

That is all I am asking for. Keep us informed.

[mikro]

Guys, I totally get it and trust me, we're bugging him every time somebody complains. Usually people ask via https://www.facebook.com/retroatarisk so at least that way he usually answers that yes, it's still on. As I said - communicating to the public ... not really his brightest point.

Now you can ask, why the hell is he doing it and why the hell it used to work better?

The answer to the latter question is simple: Jookie did his best, offered multiple choices, great support and ... just burned out and left the scene for a couple of years because of that. So that settles that question. It's impossible to manage and develop for such project in one person.

So to avoid this kind of situation again (we all, and that includes me as well, want to see a new CE produced), Jookie agreed to "outsource" the management and factory dealings to Expi, who is running his own business, has various connections and business discounts (but yet he is a too small fish to have some serious leverage on the big ones, as you can see). So, that helped *a lot*, Jookie found time and motivation again to get back to CE and even if it doesn't seem like that, things are moving forward pretty steadily.

And this is the whole story. Whenever you ask me or Jookie, we can both tell you that this is not a scam, it's just crossed with many delays and not exactly great understanding why constant updates are beneficial for everyone. So please be patient, if in doubt, sent him an email or FB message and most importantly, when he answers you, spread the word -- right now there are mostly negative posts but trust me, tens of people got their reply "in person" and were happy with it.

EDIT: as a bonus point I'll add the other side of this communication. You wouldn't believe (unless you have produced an Atari HW by yourself) how incredible dumb questions sometime people ask. So imagine going trough 50 emails asking "how much does it cost", "have you received my money yet", "why I'm not on the list when I sent you my payment 3 minutes ago" and *then* going to write an update to the web. Really, even in our small community, management of such project is a huge time waster, it sucks all the energy out of you.

[wietze]

Guys, I totally get it and trust me, we're bugging him every time somebody complains. Usually people ask via https://www.facebook.com/retroatarisk so at least that way he usually answers that yes, it's still on. As I said - communicating to the public ... not really his brightest point.

Now you can ask, why the hell is he doing it and why the hell it used to work better?

The answer to the latter question is simple: Jookie did his best, offered multiple choices, great support and ... just burned out and left the scene for a couple of years because of that. So that settles that question. It's impossible to manage and develop for such project in one person.

So to avoid this kind of situation again (we all, and that includes me as well, want to see a new CE produced), Jookie agreed to "outsource" the management and factory dealings to Expi, who is running his own business, has various connections and business discounts (but yet he is a too small fish to have some serious leverage on the big ones, as you can see). So, that helped *a lot*, Jookie found time and motivation again to get back to CE and even if it doesn't seem like that, things are moving forward pretty steadily.

And this is the whole story. Whenever you ask me or Jookie, we can both tell you that this is not a scam, it's just crossed with many delays and not exactly great understanding why constant updates are beneficial for everyone. So please be patient, if in doubt, sent him an email or FB message and most importantly, when he answers you, spread the word -- right now there are mostly negative posts but trust me, tens of people got their reply "in person" and were happy with it.

EDIT: as a bonus point I'll add the other side of this communication. You wouldn't believe (unless you have produced an Atari HW by yourself) how incredible dumb questions sometime people ask. So imagine going trough 50 emails asking "how much does it cost", "have you received my money yet", "why I'm not on the list when I sent you my payment 3 minutes ago" and *then* going to write an update to the web. Really, even in our small community, management of such project is a huge time waster, it sucks all the energy out of you.

Having followed this thread since its creation, and reading this response, I still feel that the cosmosex 3 producing people still dont grasp the situation (with regards to the community interest) and got their priorities wrong regarding their communication to thesr people.

Reading the people that ordered one, I feel that people are not trying to push you guys, but rather asking for clarity. And I think that rather than investing time in all individual emails, Id like to suggest that you provide a basis for public communiication.

And ad such, a person that is informed about his 'wait' isnwilling to wait longer and ask less questions.

If expi is the main man, and you are close to him; I propose you post a month status report in the form of:
- we are currently in this phase of production (assembling, testing, whatever)
- since last month status update this has changed (nothing, we tested a few more sexxes, whatever)

This in itself provides a heartbeat/lifeline as you will, and offers some clarity with regards to the flow of status reports. Which in turn, will reduce unrest.

I feel that this is mimimal effort, and the worst thing that can happrn is that you tell the community that there is no progress every month. And still in this worst case we know the project is still alive, and it will benefit you from reducing individual emails rrgarding status reports (or you can autoreply with directing to this monthly stafus update).
Downside is that you, mikro, have to ask expi ehat the status is. But well, cmon....

[mikro]

wietze: I agree but it's not up to me. I'm merely a "software support" person in this whole chain, i.e. that I help Jookie with development sometimes, sometimes I implement something I miss. So this posting is my "voluntary mission", just to explain you the background.

I also think it is better to post public updates than getting mad at 101st question about what the status is but, then again, it's not up to me. I'm a mere customer who is getting one CosmosEx out of it. My only "advantage" is that I know Expi personally, otherwise I'm witnessing the same delays, same lack of updates, same everything.

My best advice: if he does't answer your mails, come to Silly Venture and kick his ass in person. ;-) Last year he was there (same as Willy, btw), everyone (200+ visitors, mind you) could talk to him, ask why he is such a terrible person at communicating updates, everything. So as I say, many people are happy and satisfied, only the unfortunate part who doesn't get to reach him feel unsafe. Not great, not terrible.

[wietze]

You totally lost me. You say you know him personally and you say you are not willing to get a status report from him every month.

Im totally lost. I just read: thats a great idea, but im not willing to try/do this.

It seems like a small effort from you 2 side and great reward for everyone (including expi). You are by far the most likely person to initiate this, since you are in contact with both parties (expi and thr scene).

But why would you not be willing to at least try to do this, I dont understand.

[marss]

Jookie kindly replied my message on FB: 'No news ? So we have set date on 16.9.2019 we should have complete soldered boards )) summer is bad time because of too many vacations '
There is still hope

[mikro]

wietze: it's his business, his idea, his initiative, his reasons. I'm not in any way affiliated with the organisation, cash flow, customer support etc, just an occasional developer.

as I said, I could only provide you some background info but I'm not able to change his ways. he is aware of our (my) arguments, I mentioned it several times already but there's only so much I (or Jookie) can do. It's like asking me why Lotharek charges 40 EUR for postage fee. His reasons, his business.

[wietze]

wietze: it's his business, his idea, his initiative, his reasons. I'm not in any way affiliated with the organisation, cash flow, customer support etc, just an occasional developer.

as I said, I could only provide you some background info but I'm not able to change his ways. he is aware of our (my) arguments, I mentioned it several times already but there's only so much I (or Jookie) can do. It's like asking me why Lotharek charges 40 EUR for postage fee. His reasons, his business.

I understand and respect your views. I dont agree with them at all. I guess this happens when money gets involved for some people...

[mikro]

I think part of the misunderstanding is that you attribute me some VIP influence on Expi. I have nothing like that. Seeing this discussion now I can go to Facebook, open Messenger and ask him: Expi, what are the current news? And maybe he replies, maybe not, maybe even publish something. Anyone can do the same and the result will be the same.

What you don't see is that I have no need for it. When it's done, it's done. I'm not concerned, so I'm not asking and therefore I'm not posting anything. I can understand that not everybody shares this attitude but then - go and ask him, don't push me to do that for you.

So I equally understand your view and concern but you have the wrong guy here. I guess now I know why it's wise not to interact with angry mob, however good my intentions are. ;)

[wietze]

I think part of the misunderstanding is that you attribute me some VIP influence on Expi. I have nothing like that. Seeing this discussion now I can go to Facebook, open Messenger and ask him: Expi, what are the current news? And maybe he replies, maybe not, maybe even publish something. Anyone can do the same and the result will be the same.

What you don't see is that I have no need for it. When it's done, it's done. I'm not concerned, so I'm not asking and therefore I'm not posting anything. I can understand that not everybody shares this attitude but then - go and ask him, don't push me to do that for you.

So I equally understand your view and concern but you have the wrong guy here. I guess now I know why it's wise not to interact with angry mob, however good my intentions are.

There is no misunderstanding here. I think we've both been very clear about where we stand.

[mikro]

After a discussion with Expi, he encourages everyone with *any* concerns and suggestions to contact him directly at expi@atari.sk. He also plans to make an update during the weekend.

This my last communiqué on the topic of CE, I do more damage than good. :)

[Timnaber]

Thanks for the update mikro and the explanations. I look forward to the update from Expi.

Since I have been the most vocal about not communicating, please be aware that I am not angry at anyone, just make a post here once in awhile.

Regarding Facebook: I am in extremely small groups for family and friends connections only. Other groups on facebook do not interest me as I want to spend as little time on there as possible. Original websites and forums are where I like to spend time with others that retro.

[marss]

Still no news... so, disappointed ;(