Falcon switch on problem [SOLVED]

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catmando
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Falcon switch on problem [SOLVED]

Postby catmando » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:15 pm

When I switch on my Falcon the boot stalls before the white screen with the Atari logo appears, unless I press the reset button then it boots okay and behaves as normal.

I'd read on other threads that a faulty reset button can sometimes be the cause so I replaced it with a brand new one but the same problem still persists.

Any ideas what's next to check?
Last edited by catmando on Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby dhedberg » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:53 pm

I'm no expert, but I'd try a different PSU.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:25 pm

dhedberg wrote:I'm no expert, but I'd try a different PSU.
PSU is brand new too
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby exxos » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:37 pm

NVRAM ?
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:45 pm

exxos wrote:NVRAM ?


Reset or replace?
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:10 am

Replace it if its never been done.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:13 am

exxos wrote:Replace it if its never been done.


Looks like I'll try that next then, I've got the one I bought from you (that I was going to use in my other Falcon) so I'll try that then and report back.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby exxos » Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:26 am

Hopefully it will solve it, its the only thing I can think which would give that fault you have.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:21 pm

exxos wrote:Hopefully it will solve it, its the only thing I can think which would give that fault you have.


Installed a socket and the new chip, haven't tested it yet as finished late last night (bugger desoldering one of the end pins).

Did you have to cut the shielding as it looks like it will touch from first looks, maybe my socket wasn't low-profile enough
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:54 pm

Okay new NVRAM tests okay and retains time and date. Unfortunately black screen boot problem still exists.

I now think it has something to do with the IDE drive, if I remove the CF adapter the machine boots normally.

If I reinstall the CF adapter with CF card the machine will boot normally first time, but then if I leave it connected and switch off, then turn on again I get the black screen scenario.

I've also swapped my IDE CF adapter and CF card (same brand and model) from my other working Falcon and the problem still remains, so it appears it is not a problem with a faulty CF adapter and CF card (also tried the CF adapter and CF card from the problem machine in my good machine and it boots fine).

Perplexed....
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby exxos » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:04 pm

You could try swapping the PSU over if you have a spare falcon, I know those CF cards are very fickle with needing a good stable voltage.

As for the fitting of the NVRAM, I soldered mine direct into the board. I know people have fitted sockets, but not sure what the outcome was. and yes that pin is a bugger ;) I think it was the GND pin, or at least something with a huge copper area. I ended up using 2 soldering irons to get the pin out!
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Atari030 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:09 pm

I had a machine a while ago that did that, it was the silliest thing. The cap in the reset circuit. Might not be the problem but it can't hurt to replace it.

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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby exxos » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:11 pm

Atari030 wrote:I had a machine a while ago that did that, it was the silliest thing. The cap in the reset circuit. Might not be the problem but it can't hurt to replace it.


That's a good point actually, I had to do that on my Mega ST!
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Atari030 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:25 pm

I tried all kinds of silly things till a mate pointed it out, then voila. I thought that was too simple to be the problem at the time. ;-)

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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:31 pm

Atari030 wrote:I had a machine a while ago that did that, it was the silliest thing. The cap in the reset circuit. Might not be the problem but it can't hurt to replace it.


That had crossed my mind, do you know which one it was, there are several right next to it?
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Atari030 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:53 pm

I can look it up, from memory it is a small cap right next to the switch.

BTW, remind me to get those switchback pics for you. I have a memory like a sieve.

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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:17 am

exxos wrote:You could try swapping the PSU over if you have a spare falcon, I know those CF cards are very fickle with needing a good stable voltage.

As for the fitting of the NVRAM, I soldered mine direct into the board. I know people have fitted sockets, but not sure what the outcome was. and yes that pin is a bugger ;) I think it was the GND pin, or at least something with a huge copper area. I ended up using 2 soldering irons to get the pin out!
Tried power supply from other machine, no change to outcome.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:20 am

Falcon_resert switch.jpg



Here's the switch area, what cap/s should I be looking at?
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Atari030 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:35 am

Literally next to the switch, C1?

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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:20 am

Looks like a 22uf 16v

What name are they given when the storks are at either end? Can only see the dual stork ended type on eBay.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:31 am

C1, but it never hurts to replace all caps anyway (especially that 4700mf beasty in the middle). It's literally the first thing I do on any failed machine now - just get them all out and replaced before looking elsewhere. For the most part this gets things going again.

There aren't many caps in a Falcon. I had to do my X68000 after it died a year ago and that was around 130 caps.

It sounds like your machine is struggling to keep the voltage rails up under load. Timing is critical at boot so any sag would prevent the thing initialising correctly. When you reset, the caps are 'warm' enough to function correctly. When starting cold, they are taking a bit longer to become effective due to age.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:32 am

catmando wrote:Looks like a 22uf 16v

What name are they given when the storks are at either end? Can only see the dual stork ended type on eBay.



These are called axial (Think axle)

The ones that 'stand up' are called radial.
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:08 am

As in Axel Foley?

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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:22 am

Whatever works dude! :)
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Re: Falcon switch on problem

Postby catmando » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:40 am

There's no difference in electronic function between radial and axial is there?

Also any recommendations where to get these from other than eBay?
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