SD Card in Atari Falcon

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BoNuS
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SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:18 pm

Since I am back on the Atari Falcon again and ofcourse this old beast has a bad harddisk I was looking for
an good alternative. Seeing already a number of good solutions I tried one of my own.
And I didn't find an article about this solution so I made a new topic :)

Compact Flash (I/II) are rather common here I already saw, but here in the Netherlands CF cards aren't that
cheap (yes I'm dutch so money is always an issue ;) ) I already had some SD card lying here so I thought that
would be handy to use them. But is seems that those cardreaders are a little bit harder to get by.

Lucky me I found a shop in nearby that could help me. So here is the result:
2Gb Secure Digital (SD) card working in an Atari Falcon on the IDE channel

Image
Image
Image

And thanks to HHDriver 8.23 this is what I could see. Formating, chop it
up in bite size pieces and....

Image

Works very good, I first tried it with an old 64Mb card and when that was
working I used a bigger card. Formating took a whole lot longer but
hey, I now got 2Gb working (5 partitions).

Is it faster than the CF I/II, I don;t know. So if anybody has an benchmark
proggie I would test it.

SD card vs CF I/II card
+ Sofar for me the price :)

- Removing the card in my adaptor is a bit difficult, because it is so small.
It's quite stuck in the holder, but them again how often do you have to
remove a 2 GB card on a Falcon ;)

Costs: I bought the adaptor for 15 euro, the card costs me 5 euro. That's not much for
a SSD harddrive I could say.
I'm thinking about doing a test with the old 64 mb card, trying to write to one spot a file
over and over again to see when it fails. Just to see if the SD card is reliable to serve as an HD.
I already heard of CF card that they suffer from data lose but only aftyer a big number of writes.
Last edited by BoNuS on Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby ppera » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:29 pm

Cool. And what is the price of used IDE-SD adapter ?

I have some bencmark prgs here: http://ppera.07x.net/atari/speeat.html

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:33 pm

Your fast, I was still editing my post :)

I already found a suplier in Hong Kong via Ebay for these item's. I don't know if it is 100%
the same so I orderd one. Also orderd about 9 CF readers, for laptop testing.Hope it will
be here next week and then I can tell. SD adaptor costs about 15 US dollar each including shipping.

For the tricky removal of the SD card I think I have come up with a solution :)
Us an micro SD card in an SD adaptor sleeve , this way swapping should be easy and another
benifit is that you don't stress the contact points of the SD apator to much.
Image

I just orderd 2 of them for 10 euro :) So expect results next week also...
See if it works...
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Mug UK » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:45 pm

If you ever need any MicroSD adapters - I've got a few you can have for nothing. I got a load for use with SatanDisk and these old 256/512MB MicroSD cards that I was getting for next to nothing. Got all the protective case ones that I need so the rest are cluttering up the desk. Want them?
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:07 pm

Hi mike,

Yeah, can use a few of them, say 3 max. I think I will have to "rebuild" a few Falcons
in the near future once the rest sees how good this works :o

Once the hardware is up and running I can start with the software, loads to watch
and test. Gotta a lot of Falcon up-dates to test :) Sofar I just did what I had to do
the get it al running again.

Anybody already busy getting USB running on the Atari's ????
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby teh3pwner » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:16 pm

BoNuS wrote:Anybody already busy getting USB running on the Atari's ????


We already have the hardware, but the drivers are the problem (hard to write, I guess), there is only a mouse driver avalible.

Check out these links:
http://www.janthomas.org.uk/
http://hardware.atari.org/netusbee/index.htm
http://hardware.atari.org/netusbee/netus.htm
Image
Image

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Jookie » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:09 pm

BoNuS wrote:Anybody already busy getting USB running on the Atari's ????


What hardware would you like to connect through USB?

Because:
- for mouse and keyboards you have PS2-to-atari interfaces, and connecting those through USB would be a waste of processing power
- for mass storage you have CF cards, SD and MMC cards, which you can connect to ST through IDE from ppera or SatanDisk, UltraSatan for the SD/MMC cards. The SD card might already be combined with USB card reader: http://joo.kie.sk/ultrasatan/microsd.jpg
so for connecting to ST you can use it in SatanDisk or UltraSatan, and you can directly connect it to PC via USB

So... What hardware you want for ST, that you would like to have USB on ST and connect it trhough USB?

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Shredder11 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:48 pm

Printers, Scanners, Networking or just a simple connection between the ST and PC. This is just a very quick response with no proper thought prior to posting, so don't flame me! :mrgreen:

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Jookie » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:06 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Printers, Scanners, Networking or just a simple connection between the ST and PC. This is just a very quick response with no proper thought prior to posting, so don't flame me! :mrgreen:


The USB would be a nice thing if all those many different printers, scanners, network cards wouldn't require many different drivers, which would someone need to write.

So you should do your printing and scanning on your PC, and for the networking use EtherNEC or something similar. And for the simple connection between ST and PC use serial cable or ParCP :)

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:14 pm

Indeed, not only storage but a printer or scanner, maybe even an I-pod
Or my digital camera via USB upload pictures to my Atari.
As een Atari-fan I would like to boost a bit about it ofcourse.
Like "My 20 year old Atari can do that too, with only 4mb instead of 4Gb" :lol:

And to be honest, I just was curious to see if anybody had done it :D

http://hardware.atari.org/netusbee/netus.htm
Looks good btw :) its a start and a good one !
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Jookie » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:17 pm

BoNuS wrote:As een Atari-fan I would like to boost a bit about it ofcourse.
Like "My 20 year old Atari can do that too, with only 4mb instead of 4Gb" :lol:


Yeah, and we should definitely make a HD video editing software for ST, so I could do the video processing and DVD burning on my ST with 4MB of RAM :lol:

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:53 pm

So finaly I got some time again and yes my Micro SD cards have arrived :) I can only say, if you are
using SD cards in de Falcon use then with an Micro adaptor. This is so much easier to remove and
its much better for your cardreader. You don't stress the delicate contacts so much and is the
microadaptor is defective is much easier and cheaper to replace :)
And they work just as fine !!!

You see:
Image
ooo and btw the disk is just for keeping the contacts of the PCB of the steel bracket :o
Image

I also tried Hushi tools with this card reader and it work good, although I didn't manage
to boot from the SD card. Why Hushi tools, well I got the Falcon of Wingleader here also
for some repairs.

I am going off-topic here a bit but you have to see this ;)

His old Conner 64 Mb wasn't acces-able anymore and a load of his old stuff was still on it.
I knew that in the past he was using Hushi tools and I hope to gain acces with the 6.52 version
again. The software worked alright but the disk remained unreadable :cry:
The HD started ip but after a few seconds it stopt again. The restarted and so on...

Liseningen to the noise it made I though something is wrong, because I didn't hear the head
clicking from left to right. An old trick, and a destructive one to, is to gentle hit the HD case
to make it move again (this is almost a last resort !!!!). With old Seagates this trick worked
fine but remember to back-up you data once you used this method. The suffered from
sticky heads in the past. So back-up is a must, you might not be so lucky next time...

But even after a gentle knock no action. So this called for even more drastic methods.
NNOOOO don't use a bigger hamer :)
Since the cover isi screwed on the only way is to unscrew it and look insite. Again only
as a last resort. So I did...

Image

Nice view of the inside ain't it. Then I started his machine again and the drive started to turn
again. And it stopped again as before. Nou I waited till it started again and gentle move the
head a little. I made a little klick and it started moving again :o It moved a few times and
the HD kept running now. So I thought re-boot and wait...
First I hooked up my ZIP drive to make a back-up if this would really work...

Image

I was lucky enough to boot now from the HD again, saying Conner 63Mb found an
voila up and running. So the hushi install on the Conner saw my ZIP and I could start
the back-up.It didn't went 100% smoothly but all data has been saved...
Needless to say that this was the last real good action from the Conner, although I
screwed the cover back on after a backup session of 2 hours it was done for.

It doesn't started up anymore, the head is again stuck on track 0. So this machine will also
be fitted with an CF / SD card reader, lucky I bought several spares to replace old HD's.

I still have to preform the speed test but I found yet another job to do which old falcons
suffer from. That infamous clock isn't running anymore so I have to fix that on all 3 machines
here. Since time is a luxery I don't have much I will have to do this first...
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby Desty » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:05 am

Wow, that's a good recovery job :)
tá'n poc ar buile!

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:08 am

What else can you do :) I was glad I could save the sources. Now the unit hangs on the wall
and the CF is build in. No more moving parts, but even CF isn't 100% relaiable.
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby wongck » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:26 pm

So what is the speed of the SD card like on the falc?
Ran any benchmark yet?
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby KLund1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:30 pm

I've been trying to do this, but I want to keep the HD AND have a removable SD card.
I've got all the parts, & cables. But I can not get the HD and SD drive to work on the same bus. I've tried all the master/slave jumper combos on both drives. Nothing seems to work.
After to Falcon boots from floppy with HDDriver in the auto folder. I run HDutilies and it dose not see either drive.
When both drives are connected, the HD spins up, but does not make the usual couple of clicks it dose when I boots as the only drive on the bus.
Suggestions?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby BoNuS » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:10 pm

I don't know if the Falcon can handle 2 drives on its IDE bus. With a pc you can use 2 on 1 bus
but with the falcon I don't know :(
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby wongck » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:18 am

BoNuS wrote:I don't know if the Falcon can handle 2 drives on its IDE bus. With a pc you can use 2 on 1 bus
but with the falcon I don't know :(


No problems with it 2 devices. I am using it daily, they are powered on. I have tested with 2nd HDD, DVD, CDrom and CF. I now stuck to DVD as it is a better choice. :thumbs:

My initial issue was that my SD-card cannot work as slave, only master. So I changed my HDD to Slave and let the SD card be master.
This does not work as well, and I get corruption on filenames. Probably the SD-card devices was not properly implementing some IDE master/slave and it answered to both master and slave request.
Incidently, there is NO master/slave settings on the SD card device, so go figure.
I hope this is not the problem here because there is no way out except to change the device to support IDE master/slave. :(
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby wongck » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:26 am

KLund1 wrote:After to Falcon boots from floppy with HDDriver in the auto folder. I run HDutilies and it dose not see either drive.

Have you try the other HD software?
You can try ICD 6.5 from jookie's web page.
You can also try cecile from here. It's in French, there's an english version somewhere.
It seems to auto detect all attached drive on it's own, unlike HDDriver which may need to setup under HDutil.
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby KLund1 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:10 am

Here is my set up in my Falcon, and some screen shots of my attempt to get HDDRiver to work. As you can see when loading from a floppy with HDDriver.prg in the auto folder, on boot up, it sees nothing. But HDutilities does see the drives on the bus. But I can not format/partition/initialize.
(I loaded the pictures backwards, sorry)
If I disconnect either drive, no problems. Either by it's self boots fine.
Suggestions?
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UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby wongck » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:23 pm

This is different issue from mine. I can see both as well on the HDUtil, but garbled descriptions/name.
I think mine was due to master/slave not handled properly.

Yours seems to be slightly different.
During bootup, no patition seen is due to because it cannot access the device.
Is there anyway to check the power needs of the CF device? Or may be get a smaller size CF.
Could be in your case 2 devices drain too much power?

FYI, I have tried with 2 44pin HDD and it's working.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby KLund1 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:36 pm

Power maybe the case. Simbo noticed in another post that some of my Caps do not look so good.
All 44 pins are exposed on the CF reader. If I dig out my analog multimeter, which pins to test (left right?)? ANd what should it read?
I can hear the HD spin up, and the light on the CF reader glows red during boot then goes after I about the memtest. When the FDD starts up and loads the driver, the CF light dose not light at all.
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: SD Card in Atari Falcon

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:32 pm

Well other than that I cannot think what else to try. :?
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
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