PicrossST

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PicrossST

Postby Marskilla » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:39 pm

Hi there !
For some time now, a small group of atari users have been working on a new ST game...

A picross for atari st named PicrossST !!!

for the end of the year we've made a preview video.

You'll find it on http://picrossst.free.fr

We're waiting for your impressions !

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Postby teh3pwner » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:12 am

very nice, when will it be available, i hope soon. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby alexh » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:24 am

Nice to see your hard work, I loved MarioPicross on my GB.

If you can take some constructive criticism, it's a bit... well you know... BORING?

Now if you had some animations going on at the same time as the game, in the borders, perhaps classic Atari ST sprites running around, the oid's ship, the IK+ fighter, Ikari Warriors, Wings of death etc.

Perhaps some more themed levels, like lemmings, shadow of the beast, dungeon master etc.

Perhaps some sub-games with the picross theme? I always thought that if you combined the idea of running/falling water with picross (making holes in things to solve puzzles with running / flowing water).

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Postby Marakatti » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:22 am

alexh wrote:Now if you had some animations going on at the same time as the game, in the borders...


Seems that the new generation of videogamehardware with all the animations and gfx effects will put pressure to the retro-coders too nowadays :D

I think it's more respectable for the team to use their own graphics than rip stuff from ancient games. On the other hand the themed levels is a very good idea, as long as it has original graphics. Maybe there will be "Theme Pack Data Disks" in the future :idea:

Well, for me it looked great, seems to have that good old ST-spirit and I'm really looking forward to see the final game, after all it's an ST-game, not a DS-emulator ;)
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Postby Desty » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:31 am

Looks really smooth and fun, although quite it seems like a difficult game concept to build pictures only from the information of how many blocks in each line to fill... haven't tried it yet though.

Is that pause screen the ingame pause screen? ;)

:thumbs:


p.s. why does it talk about a tampon in French at the start? Does "tampon" mean "loading" or something in English??
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Postby Zorro 2 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:18 am

Impressions are very positives :wink:

Very interesting game, need to see more but the video is clear.

I'm waitieng for soon...
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Postby alexh » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:21 pm

I've you've never played Picross before you should take a look at the videos on youtube to get an idea.

Once word of advice, isn't "Picross" a Nintendo TradeMark?

The Sega game was called "Rainbow Town 10x10" and the technical name for them are "Nonograms".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonogram

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Postby Marskilla » Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:15 pm

alexh wrote:if you had some animations going on at the same time as the game, in the borders, perhaps classic Atari ST sprites

Well, we think that the player will be busy thinking about the puzzle. I doubt animations would be so useful. We tried and we'll try to implement effects in others places in the game to get it more entertaining. But thanx for the comment.

marakatti wrote:I think it's more respectable for the team to use their own graphics than rip stuff from ancient games.

Indeed, we tried to do all ourselves. People who never used a ST are helping to do original content.

desty wrote:why does it talk about a tampon in French at the start? Does "tampon" mean "loading" or something in English??

A "tampon" in computer engineering french language is a buffer. It has also another meaning, I let you find it.
Yes, the pause screen is an ingame capture. Only the names at the start, the final words and the fade between the "congratulations screen" and the "main menu" are not.

alexh wrote:Once word of advice, isn't "Picross" a Nintendo TradeMark?


I don't think so. French wikipedia and http://picross.org do not say so. Anyway even if it's a trademark, I do not think nintendo will sue us. 8O

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Postby Tomchi » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:40 am

Seems well designed. I'm impatient to test it on my ste !

And your compil disks are cool !! ( nice intros :wink: )
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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:03 am

Marskilla wrote:
alexh wrote:Once word of advice, isn't "Picross" a Nintendo TradeMark?

I don't think so. French wikipedia and http://picross.org do not say so. Anyway even if it's a trademark, I do not think nintendo will sue us. 8O

FYI "Picross" IS a Nintendo Trademark. (It is registered to Nintendo / Creatures Inc. / Jupiter Co.)

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Postby Marcer » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:16 am

I say im waiting more than badly for this game! Keep up! it reall looks promisinG! :D

Ignore all bad words, atleast you guys lit up the productivity on this platform, rather then some others who may complain of the stuff which actually are "about to release". No names here but.. I say to those who complains and dismotivate.. DO BETTER your-self!

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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:37 am

Marcer wrote:Ignore all bad words [snip] No names here but.. I say to those who complains and dismotivate.. DO BETTER your-self!

Looking back over this thread, no one has said any bad words!? What are you on about?

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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:43 am

Marskilla wrote:We'll try to implement effects in others places in the game to get it more entertaining.

Cool. I would like to suggest that you try to make it entertaining enough so that the player wants to get further each time just to see what is going to happen next.

Is there a high score table? With times for each level perhaps?

"Contratulations, you've got the fastest time for this level!"

Maybe you could Unlock hidden/extra levels by getting under a certain time on each Picross?
Last edited by alexh on Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Tomchi » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:54 am

alexh wrote:Looking back over this thread, no one has said any bad words!? What are you on about?

Indeed and I agree with you when you say
alexh wrote:Now if you had some animations going on at the same time as the game, in the borders, perhaps classic Atari ST sprites running around, the oid's ship, the IK+ fighter, Ikari Warriors, Wings of death etc.
That's a gorgeaous idea.
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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:18 am

@ Marskilla
How is it controlled? Mouse? Joystick?

The Gameboy version of Picross was joypad, but the SNES version could be joypad or mouse. I was lucky enough to have a SNES mouse (one that was used for developing King Arthur's World) and it was much more fun using the mouse.

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Postby Heavy Stylus » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:25 pm

alexh wrote:
Marcer wrote:Ignore all bad words [snip] No names here but.. I say to those who complains and dismotivate.. DO BETTER your-self!

Looking back over this thread, no one has said any bad words!? What are you on about?


Since when has 'BORING' (your capitals) been a nice word, or indeed constructive criticism?

Regardless, I think this could be a decent 2008 release.
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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:55 pm

Heavy Stylus wrote:Since when has 'BORING' (your capitals) been a nice word

It's a descriptive word, with emphasis.

Heavy Stylus wrote:or indeed constructive criticism?

My constructive comments were:

  • make the backgrounds themed to famous Atari ST games
  • Animations or sprites going on in the side panel, perhaps changing as your time runs out.
  • Use subgames which expand on the picross gameplay and make the title unique rather than a clone

Thinking more about that last one, maybe it would be possible to combine in the concept of power-ups? Perhaps bombs which can clear areas for you, radar which allows you to see temporarily see the location of the blocks (in a limited area) etc. maybe not.

If that isnt constructive, dunno what is.

For a port of a popular game to a retro-platform to be successful it has to have a unique twist. (By successful I mean that I mean players want to play it to the end and play it again and again rather than put it down after 5 mins think "that was cool" and never play it again.) This is especially true today if the game can be played in it's original form easily with emulators.

From the very small clip we saw, I thought it was very cool, but lacked that twist (although the pacman bit was heading the right direction). It wouldn't take much to give it that little bit extra.

But that is only IMHO.

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Postby christos » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:24 pm

STOT would like to announce that we will support PicrossST with a contest when this game becomes available and if the game provides a highscore function(heh we need to compete on something :D). So please include that if you haven't already ;).
The video shows an exciting game! It's my suggestion that you focus more on the gameplay factors, and follow your own design ideas within that scope. The eye candy should be there to support the gameplay and not the reverse. I' ve seen games that focused so much on the eye candy and technical brilliancy that eventually became gameplay flops.
I'd still like MiNT compatibility though! I can really imagine doing stuff like ircing, coding or whatever and firing it up for a quick round ;).
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Postby alexh » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:34 pm

christos wrote:I' ve seen games that focused so much on the eye candy and technical brilliancy that eventually became gameplay flops.

I agree, but I doubt any were ports of established puzzle games though ;)

From the way some people are talking, many seemed to have missed the previous Picross games and so I am sure it will be a hit.

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Postby christos » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:37 pm

alexh wrote:
christos wrote:I' ve seen games that focused so much on the eye candy and technical brilliancy that eventually became gameplay flops.

I agree, but I doubt any were ports of established puzzle games though ;)

From the way some people are talking, many seemed to have missed the previous Picross games and so I am sure it will be a hit.


I agree but I don't think you want to get distracted in a puzzle game either ;)
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Postby Marcer » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:50 pm

Heyeyey...

this thread (based on my lines) didnt went on the way I hoped.
ok I was about the word "boring", but aswell some suggestions was assumed by the same person (alexh).

But I know small words can be nasty hits in some cases and all I wanted to share was in short was. "hide the bad words" just suck up the good stuff and keep up the work!

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Postby bullis1 » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:41 pm

PicrossST looks nice. However, I have two questions:
-Will it work on plain STs?
-Will it have in-game music?
I apologize if these were answered in the video, but I could not watch it due to my dial-up connection.

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Re: PicrossST

Postby Marskilla » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:51 am

alexh wrote:FYI "Picross" IS a Nintendo Trademark. (It is registered to Nintendo / Creatures Inc. / Jupiter Co.)


I checked, you were right. But we got still a lotta work to do and by lazyness we won't rename all the game. I hope Nintendo won't sue us. (But i'm not sure a Picross on ST named PicrossST will challenge Nintendo's picross :D, anyway nongrams concept is not a nintendo one). Anyway, thank you alexh for checking this point.

alexh wrote:@ Marskilla
How is it controlled? Mouse? Joystick?


Player one : mouse (the preview video was made using mouse), Player two : keyboard. Those tested controls provide a nice gameplay.

christos wrote:I agree but I don't think you want to get distracted in a puzzle game either ;)


That's our feeling too. :wink: But we tried to put differents game screen in the back to vary a maximum

bullis1 wrote:PicrossST looks nice. However, I have two questions:
-Will it work on plain STs?
-Will it have in-game music?
I apologize if these were answered in the video, but I could not watch it due to my dial-up connection.


PicrossST has been yet tested on Tos 1.00 (quite slow for graphics effects), 1.02 (ok), 1.62(ok). We have yet palette problems with 2.06 Tos. But it the end we'll to make it work on the more Ataris as possible. The only restriction is 1 Mo RAM.

Yes it will have a in-game music. We used maxYMiser chip format. For the developpment we used a tune from jess/overlanders. But we don't have any musician in our team :( I asked marcer with a private message he didn't answered yet (he's surely a busy man). Anyway, if someone can and want to compose a original maxYMiser sound track we'll all be delighted ( http://www.preromanbritain.com/maxymiser/ ).
Otherway we'll let the game without music or use an available Tune, with authorisation of the composer if possible.

Anyway, the game is nearly finished now. The organizers of the AC2008 convention asked us a championship edition to play a contest with the participants. So we're coding the championship edition (STYLE, HUH ? :lol: ) and the game together, that's why the whole game hasn't be released yet (this and the music problem).

STay tuned...

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Re: PicrossST

Postby sh3-rg » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:35 am

The game looks really good, some top class gfx work... are all the gfx original?

I'm sure if you left a message on dhs.nu or dropped by #atariscne you would find someone willing to compose the musics you need. There's probably at least 5 tunes needed in a game this size to do justice to the efforts of the coders & gfxers... probably more if you plan to do those 100 levels.

Good luck with your efforts, I hope to see a release in the coming months!
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Re: PicrossST

Postby Marskilla » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:45 am

sh3-rg wrote:The game looks really good, some top class gfx work... are all the gfx original?


Yep. All the grfx are original. Most of them have been made on PC and then converted. The main graphists are Castanea and Zapier. They did soooo great ! Zapier ( http://zapier.free.fr/ ) didn't have ever used an ST ! He had to learn to draw in 320x200x16 :o
Castanea ( http://atari.member.free.fr/ ) was already used to ST graphics.
We are very luck to have them in the team. The coders (Shadow and I) did few grfx (menus, selection screens, intro logo...).

sh3-rg wrote:I'm sure if you left a message on dhs.nu or dropped by #atariscne you would find someone willing to compose the musics you need. There's probably at least 5 tunes needed in a game this size


That's what I did... :wink: Marcer and Starbuck may compose original tunes for us. If they don't, either the game will be mute or we'll use the "work in progress" tune.

But if I can, i'd rather not use Jess(Overlanders) tune without permission. Unfortunatly I do'nt have his contact :( We'll see. I doubt we'll have 5 tunes. Anyway we need at leat 2 (there is a parallel version of picrossST, which is a championship edition coded especially for the AC2008 (atari convention in france). Players will play picross (I'll keep the game spec secrets for now) and win prizes at the end of the event :D One tune for the full game and one tune for the championship edition would be great. 5 Tunes would be luxurious !!! We'll see what we got.

sh3-rg wrote:Good luck with your efforts, I hope to see a release in the coming months!


Well, the game is fully playable, few bugs here and there, few options to finish but we start thinking about a release date (something about april/may). I added a RSS feed on the picross web site http://picrossst.free.fr just add it to your favorites to have real time news !!!


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