Is a 4GB Solid State Disk usable in an Atari Falcon 030 ???

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supergau
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Is a 4GB Solid State Disk usable in an Atari Falcon 030 ???

Postby supergau » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:23 am

Hello folks,

i found this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Brand-New-M-SYSTEMS- ... dZViewItem

I think it can be used in a Falcon as replacement for the old build-in-harddisk - with 4GB memory it must be inside the specifications...

What do you think about it ?

greetings...supergau

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:35 pm

Well I use something similar from Transcend in a somewhat more comfortabel format which plugs directly onto the IDE port.
Works pretty good with Cecile and HDDriver :D
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

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1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

ppera

Postby ppera » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:13 pm

I think that price of 110 Euros is too big now.

For less money you can bay 4GB Compact Flash and CF-IDE adapter.
(Btw. Solid State uses also Flash memory).

Hddriver can up to much more GB.
Contrary to some articles, there is no hardware capacity limit by Falcon (or any other IDE interface). All depends from driver SW.

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:51 pm

I use something like this here:

http://www.mydatacation.de/speicher/do_ ... le=artikel

You can get 4GB for ~80EUR there....
Compared to a real harddrive pricy but the no noise factor make it ideal for Falcon use. If you have no accelerator fitted you can also kill the case fan, resulting ina deadsilent ST-like Falcon. This has a high "better than PC" factor if you ask me :D
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

Stay cool, stay Atari!

1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

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CF to IDE Adapter

Postby supergau » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:45 pm

Hello simonsunnyboy,

what kind of CF-IDE Adapter you are using ?

Can you tell me yours ?

Will this one work also ?

http://cgi.ebay.de/Adapter-Karte-Compac ... dZViewItem

Actually on ebay someone sells this here - i think this can be used also in a falcon...:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Samsung-16GB-SSD-Sol ... dZViewItem

I think about the possibilities to use this kind of storage in a normal ST or MegaST - what to do in this case -any idea ?

greetings...supergau

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:23 pm

It is no CF adapter + card . Looks like a matchbox with IDE connector containing te FLASH memory and IDE interface logic. You just stick in onto the connector and it si recognized as a harddrive.
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

Stay cool, stay Atari!

1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

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Postby alexh » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:25 pm

supergau wrote:Will this one work also ?

http://cgi.ebay.de/Adapter-Karte-Compac ... dZViewItem

Probably but as it doesnt use a cable it wouldnt physically fit in a desktop case.

a dual IDE to CF adapter will cost about £3 These ones use a cable and so will go in a desktop.
a 4GB CF card about £20

total = £23 or €32

Search around and you could probably get a better deal!

ppera

Postby ppera » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:00 pm

alexh wrote: dual IDE to CF adapter will cost about £3


Damn bandits in my place ask 15 Euros for single IDE-CF adapter.
I found best price around 8 Euros for single CF adapter here in Hungary (and CF sockets alone costed me same :-( ).

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Postby FatRakoon » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:50 pm

I have been using a CF Adapter and card for yonks now.

HD Driver v8 is required to boot from it properly, but then v8 is supposed to have issues with CuBase Audio ( Never had such issues )

Ii have a CF card and adapter promised out to someone, but Im buggered if I an remember their name / address etc.... Someone on here, or Atari.org perhaps? - not sure?

Anyway...

For what its worth, the Atari does not seem to like 2 devices on the line, even though many drivers do look for the second device, and the CT60 also looks too, it seems that actually having such things is not the done thing?

However...

With the Compact Flash adapters, you can get either single or double adapters, to take one or two cards, and I am happy to say that you can in fact use 2 cards to have 2 "Pretend" Hard Disks.

For a while, I had been using a 512MB Card for C: and a 4GB for my D: to I: and it works peachy... I have only stopped doing it cos I was under the impression that CuBase Audio wont work wit HDDriver v8, btu to be honest, I dont think I had any trouble with CuBase at all, so I might be going back.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

ppera

Postby ppera » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:26 pm

FatRakoon wrote:...
For what its worth, the Atari does not seem to like 2 devices on the line, even though many drivers do look for the second device, and the CT60 also looks too, it seems that actually having such things is not the done thing?....
With the Compact Flash adapters, you can get either single or double adapters, to take one or two cards, and I am happy to say that you can in fact use 2 cards to have 2 "Pretend" Hard Disks.
For a while, I had been using a 512MB Card for C: and a 4GB for my D: to I: and it works peachy... I have only stopped doing it cos I was under the impression that CuBase Audio wont work wit HDDriver v8, btu to be honest, I dont think I had any trouble with CuBase at all, so I might be going back.


Don't get what you want to say... Why you think that Atari (or just Falcon) don't like 2 devices on 1 IDE line?

You used 2 CF cards with Falcon (on 1 IDE line ???) - with which driver ?

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Postby FatRakoon » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:07 pm

No.

What I am saying is that many people have told me, that the FALCON does not like to have 2 devices on its IDE line and should only use the one... Be it HD or CD ( or whatever? )

This to me however, says that these people have probably NOT set the Master/Slave Jumper/Switch... Never tried it myself as I dont have a cable that can use 2c devices and my CDs are on the SCSI line anyway.

---

2 CF Cards.

Yes.

HD Driver v8

On that, I have both single and dual adapters.

So, on the dual adapter, I have 2 cards and the adapter is seen as a single device but I have access to both drives.

I have used 4 cards in this way on a PC and one adapter is MASTER, teh second is SLAVE and yet I have access to 4 drives.

Very funky.

I will upload a couple of piccies later on to show you the devices I am on about.

Once again, my Falcon has only the one connection on the IDE cable... I can use teh dual adapter with 2 cards and have access to both cards as if I have 2 drives. I am using HD Driver v8.16

OK?

Pics will be done later on.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

ppera

Postby ppera » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:40 pm

Something is not clear again:

I googled little - dual adapters what I saw have 1 card as master and other as slave (it is set on adapters and not CF cards where it is not possible).

So, don't see how may 2 master card appear on 1 IDE line. Or 4 CF card totally on 1 IDE line?

On the other side, Hddriver never recognized any of Slave drives by me, only Masters...

Can you give exact model numbers, links...

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Postby FatRakoon » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:24 pm

I know what you are thinking, and trust me on this, but its well sweet, wierd, cool - you name it, but it does work...

I will show you the pics in a short while... The Camera is charging as we speak ( Well, write )

The adapter does indeed have a Master / Slave Jumper, as I will show you.
It also takes 2 cards which show up as 2 drives... I can partition / Format etc each card seperately.

I have NOT used 2 IDE devices on teh Atari to see what happens there, but as you also pointed out... The Atari does not seem to like 2 devices?

On a PC, you can use 2 of these Adapters per line... ( Master and Slave as normal ) but they can use 2 cards each... In effect, you get 4 devices per IDE line.

Now, take into consideration, that on SCSI you can have LUNs... Well, perhaps this works on the same idea? - I dont know?

Either way, I will show you a piccy or two later on ok?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

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Postby FatRakoon » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:34 am

Here are the ones I have...

I have done a few angles of a single and of a dual... Both together.

http://www.fatrakoon.co.uk/cf/cf1.jpg
http://www.fatrakoon.co.uk/cf/cf2.jpg
http://www.fatrakoon.co.uk/cf/cf3.jpg
http://www.fatrakoon.co.uk/cf/cf4.jpg

Now, something for you to consider here... Its somehting that has been playing on my mind for a while...

Compact Flash are 100% IDE compatible right.

Now, given that the ATARI does not like SLAVE devices, and that the dual CF Adapter allows you to use 2 Compact Flash Cards, then can you then use the adapter to split each card connection back into an IDE line, to pretty much give you 2 IDE lines?

Anyway, only a thought... Probbaly not get any further than a thought, but fun all the same.

Back to the CF ADapters / Cards etc...

These very 2 adapters are currently setup to run on my Falcon.

The Dual is the one I had been using, and the single is one I setup for someone else but I forgot who to send it to?

Last night, I connected them to a PC and the PC saw all 3 cards as seperate drives ( Like I knew it would ) and on the Atari, I can use the dual adapter and have 2 drives this way ( as I have been doing for some time till recently )

---

Anything in particular you would like to know?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

ppera

Postby ppera » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:14 pm

Thanx for the photos, but I asked for adapter models - it could help me to better understand features. And maybe order couple of them...

It is possible that CF cards have some specific feature which allows to access 2 of them on one master or slave line. I will check CF specs.

I asked all it not from pure curiousity - plan to implement support for it in driver.

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Postby FatRakoon » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:36 pm

What you can see on the card ( Nothing useful ) is as much info as I can give you Im afraid.

I have bought all my CF adapters online and they all came with no info at all, no packaging... nothing!

adding stuff for driver support? cool.

Sorry I cannot be any further help at this time...

I will have a peek myself for any info about it and pass it on ok, but other than that, I dont know?

Later mate.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

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Postby FatRakoon » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:47 pm

One more thing before I go... No, two!

Firstly I just been on teh blower to my mate who said he seen some stuff about the adapters before with running 2 cards... Some techie docs, and he will have another look for me ( you ), cos it got him amazed to see 4 drives on one line.

Secondly... Something thats always got me here, but...

a - The Atari Falcon does not do SLAVE... Only MASTER?
b - The Atari Falcon only has one IDE Line.

This to me says quite clearly, that the Falcon can only access one IDE HD?

Why then does HD Driver have full support for 4 IDE Drives?

Is that for clones?

Just a silly thought.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably

ppera

Postby ppera » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:29 pm

FatRakoon wrote:a - The Atari Falcon does not do SLAVE... Only MASTER?
b - The Atari Falcon only has one IDE Line.

Why then does HD Driver have full support for 4 IDE Drives?


Accessing Slave is matter of software. There is no additional HW required for slave. In other words, Falcon may access slave disks.

Some clones have 2 IDE lines, and Hddriver has support for it - see on it's WEBsite...

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Postby Mug UK » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:20 pm

I was watching Mark Branson from the Cheshunt Computer Club last weekend at the Jagfest with an opened-up Falcon and he was preparing two h/drives for it, so I'm assuming you can do Master/Slave devices.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

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Postby FatRakoon » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:52 pm

I myself ( as I said ) have not tried it.

However, going by this, then there should be no reason why using a pair of DUAL CF Adapters wont allow the Atari to access 4 CF Cards then?

I dont at this time have 2 IDE connections on my IDE Cable on the Falcon, but I will certainly be finding out if it will allow me to do that.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
More PCs than PC World has... Probably


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