Temperatures / CT60 Instability

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Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:29 am

Can anyone tell me about temperature. When I look in my CT60 CPX temperature sits steady at 57-58C. This seems pretty warm to me but when I touch the cpu itself while running it feels almost cold. Where is this temperature measured from ? I have just the fan on it. I can't imagine the heatsink being that useful when the cpu literally feels cool to the touch.

I have an original run CT60 with one of the good rev 060's. Rev 6 I think. It is running at 80MHz.

I was having some stability issues but they seem to be gone now that I moved the CTPCI cables running from under the CT60 to on top.
Last edited by piku on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Temperatures

Postby mikro » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:35 am

It's just a simple sensor on one of the CT60 pin's. It's usefulness has been questioned many times, for me it's useful only for OK / very hot state. Certainly leave the fan and/or heatsink, can never hurt. Rev6 @ 80 MHz is certainly OK.

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Re: Temperatures

Postby Rodolphe » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:44 pm

mikro wrote:It's just a simple sensor on one of the CT60 pin's. It's usefulness has been questioned many times, for me it's useful only for OK / very hot state. Certainly leave the fan and/or heatsink, can never hurt. Rev6 @ 80 MHz is certainly OK.


060 has an internal thermal sensor in the DIE and connected on 2 pins of the 060...
On the CT60 an analog/digital convecter gives values from this sensor .
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Re: Temperatures

Postby piku » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:11 am

OK thanks. I am battling instability. I've reduced cpu clock to 50mhz and it's still not gone. Now I switched from CTPCI IDE to Falcon IDE. Basically when I leave the system run for a long time the gui becomes unresponsive (but I can still SSH). Also there is corruption on the IDE bus. Format a partition copy a root ext2 to it, reboot and run fsck with force and there is lots of badness. Rodolphe, this is a CTPCI you fixed and returned to me but I haven't had a chance to try to use it until now. I suspect when I fried the PLX chip I maybe damaged the Xilinx chip as well in some subtle way. Could be something to do with ethernat too though. I'll figure it out eventually.
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Re: Temperatures

Postby mikro » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:48 am

I guess first you should state your configuration (you're throwing notes about CT60, CTPCI, Ethernat, IDEs all at once) and naturally, strip everything down and try it piece by piece...

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:27 pm

There's not much more to it than what I've already posted.

First gen CT60 with Rev6 CPU.
128MB SDRAM
CTPCI which was repaired by rodolphe due to piercing power pins on mobo frying it.
2 IDE disks
HDDriver 10.10
Mint 1.17 with memory protection

The first thing I notice is that with 1.19 the system is crazy unstable compared to 1.17. For instance move the mouse around while xaaes is loading accs and xcontrol is loading and you will cause a memory violation of xcontrol. Back to 1.17 and I don't have these issues. With 1.19 ethernat transfers are very fast, 1.1MB/sec but they freeze after 40MB or so. With 1.17 they are at 400KB/sec but they keep going forever. These are all ancilliary problems though. The real problems are:
1) I walk away from the machine and come back to non-responsive gui. I have traced this to ctpci. Indeed if I specify a low resolution it's fine. It is when a high resolution like 1080p is used. Interestingly the machine is still up and running and you can ssh in. CTPCI is at latest update 5M and ABE/SDR are at the 7L i beieve, or whatever is posted as latest and required for ct60.
2) With CTPCI IDE transfers are corrupted. The symptom is copy ~4GB of files from one ext2 volume to another. Reboot and force an e2fsck and the files on the destination volume are corrupt. I even had on my root volume the xaaes folder get corrupt on vfat. That should have been my dead giveaway that something wasn't right.
3) I also notice that the ethernat works a little... weirdly. But I am not sure there is an actual problem here. Transfers are very slow to my local machine via ssh but are fast and stable using wget outside of my network.

To test first thing I reduced clock from 80MHz to 50MHz on 060. Files still corrupt, gui still hangs
Move IDE from CTPCI to falcon IDE - good, no corruption.
Run in 640x480x256 instead of 1080p - good, system responsive next morning

It really appears to me that I have a slightly broken ctpci still, no doubt due to what it was subjected to.
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Re: Temperatures

Postby Latz » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:06 pm

Hi,

Rodolphe wrote:060 has an internal thermal sensor in the DIE and connected on 2 pins of the 060...
On the CT60 an analog/digital convecter gives values from this sensor .

This is IC11 on the CT60 board, a TLV831CD.
See http://powerphenix.com/ct60/CT63_schematics.pdf. Perhaps you can examine the contacts of this chip with a magnifying glass
if there are bad solder connections and/or measure (carefully) with a voltmeter if supply voltage 3.3V is present at pin 8.

To your instability issues:
- The latest known working firmware files are ABE_V7F.JED, SDR_V7D.JED and CTPCI_1M.JED from "TOSbeta10" package. Find it here:
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31641&start=50 (Ektus´s attachment). You should verify this and update if needed,
don´t forget to update CT60TOS and CT60CONF.CPX too.

- Then forget about MinT and test with TOS first: Which PCI cards do you have installed? Is Xilinx chip on CTPCI or chip on
graphics card getting hot? How is your Falcon running without CTPCI?

- FreeMinT 1-19-cur runs very stable here (and elsewhere), so your MinT problem seems to be a configuration issue. Do you use the
correct (patched) XCONTROL for CT6*? Did you test COPS instead of XCONTROL?

piku wrote:It really appears to me that I have a slightly broken ctpci still, no doubt due to what it was subjected to.

This is really possible, but like mikro said: You should not mix all your issues in one thread (or do it in a more "strategic" way with
posting detailed infos about your system and a "step-by-step testing"). So we could help you much better! :D

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:10 pm

It's very hard from what I can tell to confirm firmware versions. They are not displayed. For instance CTPCI version just shows as 1E+ even though I know it is 1M.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:49 am

It's a very interesting thing. The memory violations under kernel 1.19 are absolutely repeatable (and are repeatable under 1.17 as well). If I load thing desktop, load applications, select default application and click and drag on the disabled file selector button, it will crash with memory violation. If I load xcontrol and scroll down using the down button, no problem. If I scroll down using the page scroll section, it will crash with memory violation as soon as it hits the bottom. I wouldn't think this would be so repeatable if it was a hardware issue. Still exploring but one thing is for sure. Disks get corrupted when hooked up to CTPCI IDE and do not when hooked up to falcon IDE.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:21 am

While testing the CTPCI usb board, I encountered IDE corruption on CTPCI IDE. Funny thing is that USB thumb drive has no issues.
I moved back all drives to Falcon IDE :-( amid the slower speed :-(
I checked all drives after I moved back to Falcon IDE (e2fsck and dosfsck) and all is OK.

So initially I suspected it was due my 80pin ide cable or testing the USB thumb drive. IDK which one is the cause.
I don't copy 4GB files so...
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:34 am

piku wrote:It's very hard from what I can tell to confirm firmware versions. They are not displayed. For instance CTPCI version just shows as 1E+ even though I know it is 1M.

Not right. Mine shows 1M for CTPCI.
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31641&start=50#p328767
Only ABD/SDR it is now showing fully.

From what my understanding, if you use Didier tools to flash it. the versions are shown.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 am

Ok I give up, where did you find boot 2.02 and drivers 1.02? I have only 2.01 and 1.01 respectively from Didier's site. I am pretty confident CTPCI is 1M as it was unable to boot at all before I updated it with my parallel cable using a file named CTPCI1M.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:42 am

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby Rustynutt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:16 am

Isn't it one or the other but not both for Falcon IDE and CTPCI IDE connected?
Just testing my memory, thought I'd read that somewhere, as well as Didier's software taking care of USB mass storage info posted this week.

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:25 am

Rustynutt wrote:Isn't it one or the other but not both for Falcon IDE and CTPCI IDE connected?
Just testing my memory, thought I'd read that somewhere, as well as Didier's software taking care of USB mass storage info posted this week.


it is selected from the CT63 CPX.
Using the CTPCI ide is slightly messy.... I need to use the 44-40pin adapter for my 44pin HDD and extra molex power is required.
The falcon ide is easier....
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:03 am

I do _NOT_ understand. I flashed CTPCI_1M.jed before and it showed CTPCI 1E-1L on boot once I flashed the tosbeta10 (2.02/1.02). I loaded the flash tool and hit verify and it verified okay. I reprogrammed the CPLD and now it is showing CTPCI 1M. That is just strange. The Thing desktop crash I can cause happens even in 030 mode. I will take the thing install and move it to aranym and see if it still crashes.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:14 am

I'd be willing to place bets that the IDE works properly now. Ethernat downloads are now rock solid under 1.19 6b9 (though very slow, 200KB/sec)
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:19 am

glad you got it working better.
get a rtl8139. :D
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby piku » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:24 am

Sad to say it is still unstable. Loading up the system causes memory violations. Even now XaAES just died. What seems a great way to kill it is to play an ace tracker module in mxplayer while copying files. It also seems closely tied to mouse movements and keyboard input. In fact if I just leave it at the console and ssh into it, I can play for a long time with no problems and high system load. It seems like the whole right half of the board is being strange. Sometimes a key is stuck and repeating on boot, and playing sound or keystrokes cause issues.. All over there.

EDIT: Just verified mxplayer is an instant killer. The system can be running pretty well under heavy load until I start playing a song.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby mikro » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:27 am

As the author of mxplay I can give you one instant advice: don't use ACE files as a test case. It's a custom, closed source, assembler-based player which mxplay has zero control over. Try MPG123, ASAP or XMP plugins if you're looking for clean and stable code.

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby Rodolphe » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:05 pm

wongck wrote:
piku wrote:It's very hard from what I can tell to confirm firmware versions. They are not displayed. For instance CTPCI version just shows as 1E+ even though I know it is 1M.

Not right. Mine shows 1M for CTPCI.
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31641&start=50#p328767
Only ABD/SDR it is now showing fully.

From what my understanding, if you use Didier tools to flash it. the versions are shown.


About CPLD update, the version will appear on boot ONLY IF you programmed the CPLD from an ATARI // port with Didier's flashtool.
If you program from a PC with Xilinx soft, you will never have the CPLD version on the boot because, sure, the PC is not able to put the value in the TOS flash !

But, the very bad thing is that once you programmed with atari, the info will still on the boot even if after you programm with a PC !
That's very bad design/concept and I told that to Didier long time ago...

If somebody know how to erase the value of the CPLD to never see it on boot... it is better to not display an old version !
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby mikro » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:03 pm

Rodolphe wrote:But, the very bad thing is that once you programmed with atari, the info will still on the boot even if after you programm with a PC !
That's very bad design/concept and I told that to Didier long time ago...

If somebody know how to erase the value of the CPLD to never see it on boot... it is better to not display an old version !

This is actually quite easy to overcome -- right now the flash tool stores the version in the flash memory and that's it. Only thing needed is to save also a CRC of the flashed content, i.e. if the CRC doesn't match, don't show the version.

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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:49 pm

Rodolphe wrote:About CPLD update, the version will appear on boot ONLY IF you programmed the CPLD from an ATARI // port with Didier's flashtool.
If you program from a PC with Xilinx soft, you will never have the CPLD version on the boot because, sure, the PC is not able to put the value in the TOS flash !

But, the very bad thing is that once you programmed with atari, the info will still on the boot even if after you programm with a PC !
That's very bad design/concept and I told that to Didier long time ago...


Ah so.... thanks for the hint.
So it is not very good to use both method to program, can be very misleading.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby wongck » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:53 pm

mikro wrote:This is actually quite easy to overcome -- right now the flash tool stores the version in the flash memory and that's it. Only thing needed is to save also a CRC of the flashed content, i.e. if the CRC doesn't match, don't show the version.


it is possible to check the CRC of what was actually flashed ?
If it is possible, then another function of the flash tool may be to check the version of the CPLD.
That would take the guess work out.
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Re: Temperatures / CT60 Instability

Postby mikro » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:04 am

Well, if you can write into CPLD I'd assume you can read from it, too. :-)

Unfortunately I wont have my Falcons and/or CT6{0,3,0e} for yet another three months so I can't help here. What you can do is to pray that the ship with my Atari stuff wont sink. ;-)


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