CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

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CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby AtariOwl » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Hi Guys

I rooted out my CT60 falcon the other day and noticed i never got around to installing the BUS acceleration.

I cant seem to fin instructions for this.

A few questions therefore.

1: Is it worth having the solder installation? Is it stable?
2: Are there instructions anywhere to make sure i have the right bits?
3: Is there anyone still installing these? I'm not exactly the most adeptperson in teh world with a soldering iron.

ALl the Best

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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby HuggyOne76 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:36 pm

Everything is here : http://www.powerphenix.com/CT60/english/Fitt_sold.htm

I never tried before...

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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby AtariOwl » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:46 pm

How odd

All the pictures were missing the other day


Thank you

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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby joska » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:51 pm

AtariOwl wrote:I'm not exactly the most adeptperson in teh world with a soldering iron.


Then don't do it. Seriously :) I don't have personal experience with the CT60 (yet!) but I have years of experience with accelerated Falcons. Once you get them working they're great, but it seems like every Falcon is a unique creature with it's own personality and getting them to work reliably with an accelerator usually requires a bit of skill and patience.
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby SweYC » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:11 pm

AtariOwl wrote:Hi Guys

1: Is it worth having the solder installation? Is it stable?
2: Are there instructions anywhere to make sure i have the right bits?
3: Is there anyone still installing these? I'm not exactly the most adeptperson in teh world with a soldering iron.

ALl the Best


As Jo said, it can be tricky to iron out some possible glitches ( i had DSP issue, separate 50mhz clock was needed for DSP) and its not easiest job to do... On other hand, display really is a lot quicker with bus acceleration, bigger res are possible, and general responsivenes of the machine is really really great! For example, i used CT2 machine a lot more as CT60 (except for NeoN), until i fixed CT60's bus acceleration... Just my 2 pences, it is worthwile, but tricky as well!

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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby exxos » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:49 pm

I know I said this before, but back in the "nemesis" days I heard of it killing no end of falcons. I had one fitted to mine, 20mhz worked fine, 24mhz wasn't stable. I messed about with it for ages, but in the end I took it out and did not want to risk it. As to what "died" I have no idea. If you have CT60 you already have a huge boost in speed, so IMHO I wouldn't risk it.

I had the DSP "termination resistor" in my falcon until I realised it was actually clamping the clock voltage by almost half. AFAIK some falcons suffered with some noise problems relating to the clock (why am I not surprised?) Though I think unless you actually have a problem, not to "fix" it. Falcons are a bit of a rarity these days, not exactly cheap to fix or replace should things go wrong.

I don't know if the CT60 bus boost is better than nemesis (would assume so) but still, after all the problems I had , I wouldn't risk it. Others however have it running fine at higher speeds for years. pot luck I guess :)
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby Paolo » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:11 pm

my 0,02 € here:

I had my CT60 unsoldered for a while, and I greatly enjoyed it. Also, I could revert the whole computer to full 030 without any bus/clock/whatever speedup.

Then I let myself to the speed frenzy, and I ended sending the board to Czuba to have it tweaked enough to properly work.

Of course I appreciated the overall performance, and I love my falcon the way it is now, However I have no more full fallback to 030, and I also have some next-gen DSP timing fix.

So, if you are really happy and satisfied now, don't touch it. Otherwise, be prepared to a half hour of sodering, or to a couple of weeks of messing around.

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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:59 am

There is also some video issues. I used to play a couple of demos (cant remember what they were called) but after the "bus mods" the video was messed up and I couldn't play them anymore.
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby shoggoth » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:34 am

I've made the CT60 bus mods on a couple of boards, and all became more stable after performing it (!). I've however used separate oscillators for the DSPs, since long wires for the DSP clock is a great recipe for trouble.

The discussion about video issues is basically the same discussion as the case of RGB resolutions on the SuperVidel: a very few amount of people complained about RGB modes not being available on the SV, publicly referring to this as some sort of compatibility issue. In practice, no one could come up with a production which required RGB and even *worked* on 060 CPUs. Yet these discussions still pop up every now and then.

The bus modification alters the 32MHz VIDEL clock, which is used by RGB modes and (in theory) some tweaked VGA modes. Since bus-modified configurations have been a reality for 20 years, people learned to take this into account - especially for 060-compatible productions. I haven't seen any 060-compatible production which relies on the 32Mhz clock being 32MHz on VGA. I could implement one, but then again I'd be a complete dumbass.

Conclusion: The bus modification does *not* cause any significant real life video compatibility issues.
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby DarkLord » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:39 am

joska wrote:
AtariOwl wrote:I'm not exactly the most adeptperson in teh world with a soldering iron.


Then don't do it. Seriously :) I don't have personal experience with the CT60 (yet!) but I have years of experience with accelerated Falcons. Once you get them working they're great, but it seems like every Falcon is a unique creature with it's own personality and getting them to work reliably with an accelerator usually requires a bit of skill and patience.


That does seem to be the case. Since I'm a klutz at soldering, barely getting by on ST boards, I didn't want to
fool with the Falcon's MB so I had Mark Duckworth (sp?) do it here in the US (btw, anyone heard from him in
like, forever?). When he got done with it, I had a nicely accelerated Falcon but he explained to me that he
wasn't able to go "full bore" on some parts (DSP, etc), but had to back down a few notches in speed to make
it stable. He told me that was very common. You could go full on some, but not all boards.
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby DarkLord » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:44 am

exxos wrote:I know I said this before, but back in the "nemesis" days I heard of it killing no end of falcons. I had one fitted to mine, 20mhz worked fine, 24mhz wasn't stable. I messed about with it for ages, but in the end I took it out and did not want to risk it. As to what "died" I have no idea. If you have CT60 you already have a huge boost in speed, so IMHO I wouldn't risk it.

I had the DSP "termination resistor" in my falcon until I realised it was actually clamping the clock voltage by almost half. AFAIK some falcons suffered with some noise problems relating to the clock (why am I not surprised?) Though I think unless you actually have a problem, not to "fix" it. Falcons are a bit of a rarity these days, not exactly cheap to fix or replace should things go wrong.

I don't know if the CT60 bus boost is better than nemesis (would assume so) but still, after all the problems I had , I wouldn't risk it. Others however have it running fine at higher speeds for years. pot luck I guess :)


I had that same problem with my Nemesis. Alex Yu at ATY computers installed mine. Alex said he couldn't get it to go faster than 20mhz without stability issues.

As for the CT60, I've been running mine at 95mhz and with the motherboard mods enabled for several years now. It seems to be very stable. If I push it past 95 mhz though (I have a CTM so I can software dial it up and down), I get random crashes.
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby exxos » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:56 pm

It is probable the CT60 boost is a better "version" than nemesis. Though after all the trouble I had with it, I just took nemesis out. Something was killing falcons back in the day relating to it. Could be either nemesis was spiking the clocks causing chips to fail, or the chips overheated and failed. Eitherway, I am not going to risk it again :)

As for software, same thing, back in the day nemesis messed up video so much for me that it was one other motivation to removed it as I just had enough with it. Of course things will break in CT60 mode anyway, but I never had CT60 20 years ago :) I can't speak for "todays" software, they will be fixed probably for CT60 and extra video modes etc. A lot of software won't be. Though the stuff I was running 20 years ago, it was just impossible.

I'd sooner have a "stock falcon mode" so I can run any software and keep maximum compatibility. If CT60 breaks something, I can turn it off. If people mostly running apps, they can use CT60 mode and higher resolutions. For me, most of my "work" was in STOS and stock resolutions, so higher resolutions was pointless for me anyway. I didn't used to play many games on it, I don't think there was exactly many, In the end it was "fc*k it, im taking this junk out" as stuff wouldn't work, even if it did, it wasn't stable.

20mhz was nice for STOS, the scrolling of the code was so slow 20mhz made a difference there. But other than that, I didn't really need 20mhz. Plus should I have written any software in 20mhz mode, those who didn't have nemesis installed would be having issues running my software on a slower machine. I think it would run at 24mhz, but I think after half a hour, it would start crashing. I did stick heatsinks on a lot of chips, but seemed like the chips didn't like 24mhz, so I removed nemesis all together rather than risking killing stuff.

I know there was a couple of apps which increased the desktop size, really removing the borders to give a true full screen. I did use that for a while. I can't remember if nemesis messed that up as well or not, probably did. I hardly have time to actually "use" my ST's these days because of hardware mods. My falcon has been in bits since 2002 ever since I got CT60 to install. Just don't have much time these days for my falcon :(
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Re: CT60 with solders? Should i? Finally?

Postby shoggoth » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:35 pm

exxos wrote:I know there was a couple of apps which increased the desktop size, really removing the borders to give a true full screen. I did use that for a while. I can't remember if nemesis messed that up as well or not, probably did. I hardly have time to actually "use" my ST's these days because of hardware mods. My falcon has been in bits since 2002 ever since I got CT60 to install. Just don't have much time these days for my falcon :(


No, the Nemesis rather enhanced that stuff, since the VIDEL can go a fair bit higher when fed with a 50MHz clock (I used a 1024x768x256 non interlaced mode for a few years, matching the native resolution on the TFT I was using).
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