unable to play mp3's (Solved)

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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:57 am

Any program/game/demo that is Videl exclusive, will simply output to the Videl (even if you are using CTPCI). So, either run your rig with 2 monitors, a monitor with 2 inputs, KVM, etc. My preference is using a TV for RGB from videl and monitor for VGA/DVi from Radeon. However we have the luxury of SCART over here, not sure what the options are for simple RGB in US?

There is a catch though. Barring a few well coded demos and Klaz's patched games, these applications are not CTPCI aware. So on exit, control is not passed back to CTPCI and the system appears to lock up.

Your case still looks like a fried DSP though. For absolute certainty, you can try that little DSP program Atari shipped with the Falcon or DSPTEST which is attached to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=10664
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby nativ » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:29 am

paul92706 wrote:Ok here are reports executing Ace Tracker, there was a slight (half a second) output from audio speakers then system hangs up, doesnt do anything desktop is locked up in same position i double clicks Ace Tracker program. Now i am using CTPCI with Radeon card and i believe Ace Tracker is for standard Videl?? could that play a part to?


So thats a similar response to aniplayer? only other musical audio test is to try an ACE file in GEMplay. and give that dsp test a go.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:44 pm

Re: thanks dal for your great schooling, im sure DSP is toast :'-( but hey i will give dsptest a go.
Re: nativ yes its same with aniplayer unless i disable DSP it works of processor fine.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby nativ » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:19 pm

I guess I would be experiencing this fault with my Falcon too now... but way back in 1996? I managed to fall over a 5 meter minijack to phono lead I had connected to my falcon ripping the headphone jack off the mobo, sent it away to The Upgrade Shop, who repaired it and also re-seated the DSP as iirc they said " the solder was cracked? " dry joint? I quite happily had been testing out all the DSP functions prior without trouble.

So in the event of all these software tests failing I would recommend a close inspection of the actual DSP itself.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:42 pm

I decided to open up Falcy and pull out the motherboard and what i saw was quite strange in the Headphone jack related area on mobo. It seems like someone had performed a mod of some kind what i saw were disc capacitors with some ground wires on L36 and L37 and L38 areas. Seems some one had removed the orignal resisters and wired some hack wires in that area hmmmm! very strange sorry but i have no camera to snap pics to upload you guys. Maybe this Falcon was in a studio? i dunno but from what i asume is that this mod might of Shorted out my DSP??? or related? hmmmm! i will remove all the hack Disc capacitors and replace with original resister that belong in L36,L37,L38 area! i will report back status later.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby nativ » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:54 am

the headphone jack had a 'bass boost removal' hack / mod

I think there were some DSP hacks too ? a home made clock generator ( instead of an FDI or Cubase Audio Clock )

then there are the 'Blow up screen' Mods and Speeder mods and some hard drive fix mod?

I vaguely recall some DSP boot progs, one was an STe sound fix? will have to check that out.

good luck
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:36 am

Dal wrote:Any program/game/demo that is Videl exclusive, will simply output to the Videl (even if you are using CTPCI). So, either run your rig with 2 monitors, a monitor with 2 inputs, KVM, etc. My preference is using a TV for RGB from videl and monitor for VGA/DVi from Radeon. However we have the luxury of SCART over here, not sure what the options are for simple RGB in US?

There is a catch though. Barring a few well coded demos and Klaz's patched games, these applications are not CTPCI aware. So on exit, control is not passed back to CTPCI and the system appears to lock up.

Your case still looks like a fried DSP though. For absolute certainty, you can try that little DSP program Atari shipped with the Falcon or DSPTEST which is attached to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=10664

Hi dal!, thanks for that link to DSP test, anyways good news, i passed all 3 SRAM test, so i can exclude that. I obviously get sound out of my headphone jack output and its related components so i can exclude that, so i'm guessing gubbed DSP56001 chip?
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:45 pm

paul92706 wrote:
CiH wrote:On FalcAmp you can't. It's DSP dependant. For Aniplayer, look in the menu to untick DSP replay. It will then replay MP3's without the DSP but will cost you most of your cpu time.

Do other programs have issues with using the DSP, and what happens when you go down to Falcon 030 mode?

Same thing in 030 mode, system lockes up when i play mp3s. I have yet not try other programs. I will maybe a demo and report back here.


- Check SDMA clock : use my patch !
- Check SRAM of the DSP : use the DSP software test inside the CT2 software pack on my free pages !
http://rodolphe.czuba.free.fr/CT2/english/welcome.htm

I think DSP SRAM !
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby Rodolphe » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:47 pm

paul92706 wrote:Re:Nativ makes some sense i will try Ace tracker and report results here, if it was my DSP why do i still get audio output using CT60? if it was DSP problem there should be no audio corret? i wonder why system locks up when i play mp3 via falcamp?


AUDIO can go from RAM to CODEC via the SDMA chip (matrix) without the DSP !
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:01 am

paul92706 wrote:I decided to open up Falcy and pull out the motherboard and what i saw was quite strange in the Headphone jack related area on mobo. It seems like someone had performed a mod of some kind what i saw were disc capacitors with some ground wires on L36 and L37 and L38 areas. Seems some one had removed the orignal resisters and wired some hack wires in that area hmmmm! very strange sorry but i have no camera to snap pics to upload you guys. Maybe this Falcon was in a studio? i dunno but from what i asume is that this mod might of Shorted out my DSP??? or related? hmmmm! i will remove all the hack Disc capacitors and replace with original resister that belong in L36,L37,L38 area! i will report back status later.


Ohh, no, no ,no, don't do that Paul. Those are the correct modifications that Atari did to up-rev the board solve RF issues etc - ECO # 1604 in the Falcon Service Guide. It brings the board up to a later rev (Rev J I think) to resolve some serious and some minor problems. See my post with picture (L122L123.jpg) near the bottom of the following thread (also download Simbo's attachment from the Falcon Service Guide in his post before mine - it has a description of the mod and a schematic):

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24256

What you describe is the two toroidal ferrite cores/inductors with the L/R channels coiled around the cores - L122 and L123 collectively. Have a look at my snap to see if it looks the same as mine. They are RF filters and occupy L33, L35, L36, L38 (L/R Mic I/P and L/R O/P respectively - that's why the wires are red/green. L = Red / R=Green , L34 and L37 have a zero Ohm resistor in place. Part of the ECO (Engineering Change Order) requires the caps you mention, C602,C603,C604 and so on. If you have a board with all the factory revisions (official Atari ECO) you should keep them IMHO. Also if you do remove L122 and L123 and the caps and restore the Rev A/B/C/D inductors/resistors you will need to check the whole ECO and reverse all the other parts of the order - if you don't your board will be well and truly hacked. A better bet would be to follow the ECO and make sure ALL of it was done correctly. Maybe someone with more enthusiasm than ability tried to DIY it - quite possible. Is it really neat like my pic or is it a bit of an untidy mess with bad soldering?

The irony is I'm sourcing the parts to do this ECO right now :roll: Following the ECO is enough of a headache, I reckon reversing it properly would be even worse :wink:

Oh, you might want to check the SDMA chip is in place and seated properly if it's socketed (see the thread mentioned above for Simbo's pic). If the board is very dirty and there is lots of flux residue about you could use a chip puller to remove the SDMA and inspect the socket and chip for furred up pins and gently clean with IsoP. Only use a chip puller though, you can easily break a PLCC socket and chip if you try to lever it out without the correct tool. Also check that the jumpers on U47 (located at 10 O'Clock from the CPU) are clean with no flux or corrosion bridging them slightly. Jumper 8 should be clean and have no solder bridge if DSP is enabled. Could be your board was originally 1mb and would have shipped with no SDMA, an empty socket, and U47 Jumper 8 short. If this upgrade was badly done by someone not used to working on PCBs there could be 20 year old burger grease and sweaty salty fingerprints all over the SDMA chip and PLCC socket pins munching away at the contacts all this time not to mention left over solder and flux on J8.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 am

If the SDMA chip is not socketed them it would seem to be the DSP chip or bad SDMA clock patch as Rodolph said earlier.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:15 am

Hi sounddoc, it really seems like someone had did that mod, the solder was poorly applied to the capacitors. So your saying Atari did this mod? hmm maybe a last minute revision eh? well i did remove it cause it was causing my audio output to buzz it was not sounding clear. But right now im unable to test it due to NVRAM removed. I might of found the problem to why DSP wasnt working, i found a broken trace from 5vcc to resister leading to DSP chip pin 46 and 76. I reran a wire from 5vcc to resister were trace was broken. Since you know about the DSP chip why are pins 46 and 76 5vcc?? it states 46 is BR and 76 is IRQA?? hmmm can you clear that up?I also did a continuity test and i see theres a quite few direct 5vcc pins on DSP itself why is that also? thanks :coffe:
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:11 pm

paul92706 wrote:Hi sounddoc, it really seems like someone had did that mod, the solder was poorly applied to the capacitors. So your saying Atari did this mod? hmm maybe a last minute revision eh? well i did remove it cause it was causing my audio output to buzz it was not sounding clear. But right now im unable to test it due to NVRAM removed. I might of found the problem to why DSP wasnt working, i found a broken trace from 5vcc to resister leading to DSP chip pin 46 and 76. I reran a wire from 5vcc to resister were trace was broken. Since you know about the DSP chip why are pins 46 and 76 5vcc?? it states 46 is BR and 76 is IRQA?? hmmm can you clear that up?I also did a continuity test and i see theres a quite few direct 5vcc pins on DSP itself why is that also? thanks :coffe:


From what I read in the Falcon Service Guide the Rev J stuff was probalby last engineering change order (dated mid/late 1993). ECOs are sent to producton and service centres so every new machine off the production line will have the change applied and every machine returned for service will have the change applied also. Well official Atari work stopped in the 90's so it's anyones guess how your board got the changes. My guess is DIY bodge job that was incomplete or wrong such as caps polarity wrong or similar hence the buzz.

I'm no expert on this chip (or any chip) but my understanding is as follows (for what it's worth) -the DSP chip is made up of several functional groups, something like 10 or 12 I think. Most of those require power and are given a pair of Vcc lines each have their own pair of GND too - Host Interface, Internal Logic, Data Bus, Address Bus, Bus Control logic, and so on. The Vcc and Gnd pairs are (generally) adjacent to one another but separate ( I mean you will see pin, pin, VccH, VccH, other stuff, GNDH, GNDH if you know what I mean). Some functions of the groups are TTL controlled to switch mode. I'm not sure of the numbering (I thought 46 was Write Enabe) but IRQA is also MODA control reset and can switch between interrupt and control modes. You would want 5vcc to these to be able to pull them low or leave them high.

Somebody with better knowledge of this chip will be better placed to point out the bollox bit in my explantation :wink:

If you had a broken Vcc trace any one of those function groups would be goosed and havock would have resulted from addressing the chip and opening the data bus to the DMA....wich is pretty much what happened :angel:
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:32 pm

Hi Paul,

Is this the same Falcon that you modded with the Ajax / SDMA terminator resistor back in April because of FalcAmp MP3 playback issues?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23257&hilit=SDMA+Patch

Maybe check the resistor is still in contact with the clock trace, but more importantly, that the clock trace to pin 2 of the SDMA isn't broken. My thinking is the resistor could have pulled the trace causing the loss of the clock signal to the SDMA.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:20 am

SoundDoctor wrote:Hi Paul,

Is this the same Falcon that you modded with the Ajax / SDMA terminator resistor back in April because of FalcAmp MP3 playback issues?

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23257&hilit=SDMA+Patch

Maybe check the resistor is still in contact with the clock trace, but more importantly, that the clock trace to pin 2 of the SDMA isn't broken. My thinking is the resistor could have pulled the trace causing the loss of the clock signal to the SDMA.

Hi SoundDoc lol yes my Falcon has given me grief!! im sure i posted 1..2..3..??? post's on here. My falcon does keep me on my tippy toes! thats what i love about it haha! yes i'm going through a total trace test on my Falcon right now as i am hacing issues with black screen and tick sound from my onboard speaker. From what i read on previous post on here it may be my NVRAM. I just ordered 2 samples from Maxim on those Dallas 12887 chips. I hope this really solves my problem, im telling you problem after problem!, its not Falcons fault, its mine hehe hey im learning, but a Falcon must be respected so i am learning the hard way :( as soon as i get this ol bird up i will report back with status (fingers crossed) i cant afford another bird at this time.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:27 pm

Good Luck Paul!
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:20 pm

SoundDoctor wrote:Good Luck Paul!

Thanks sound! i feel sad that the ol' bird is down :( i hope she comes back to life! (cross my fingers)
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:28 am

Hi Paul,

I looked up the DSP chip properly. Pin 46 is WR (Write Enable) as I thought - BR (Read Enable) is pin 45, you were 1 out bud so you might want to re-count the pins if you re-test the traces.

paul92706 wrote: i found a broken trace from 5vcc to resister leading to DSP chip pin 46 and 76. I reran a wire from 5vcc to resister were trace was broken. Since you know about the DSP chip why are pins 46 and 76 5vcc?? it states 46 is BR and 76 is IRQA?? hmmm can you clear that up?I also did a continuity test and i see theres a quite few direct 5vcc pins on DSP itself why is that also?


Pin 76 is Address Bus A12 and I'm not sure if Vcc should be going there at all. Maybe someone can chip in (pardon the pun) and confirm. The Address Bus power, as far as my understanding goes, will be pulled from VccA. The Address Bus, Data Bus, and Bus control are collectively PortA - DMA or External Memory Interface.

My gut is telling me SDMA <> DSP <>SDMA is where the problem is. And my gut is rumbling about clocks and buffers around there. I commission and fix large format digital audio mixing consoles in studios and outside broadcast trucks for a living and my gut has always proved to be the best tool in my toolbox... :wink:

Did you have to destroy the RTC chip to get it off the board? If it's still more or less intact you could use it to try to boot the falcon. You should solder a 24 pin dil socket to the board ready for the new Dallas clock while you're waiting for it to arrive, try to insert the old chip back into the socket (after you have straightened and cleaned the pins) to see if you can boot the Falcon. If you still get ticks and a black screen power it down immediately. Of course if you had to cut the pins to get the old RTC off you'll have to wait for new RTC chip.

You are measuring these traces cold i.e. with power off? The risk of blowing the bejaysus out of the board is way too high powered on, either from shorts caused by the probes or by the fault condition itself. The only time I measure with power on is when I'm measuring a PSU o/p under load or clock o/p freq / level.

To be honest I would look at all of the buffer mods that have been done and look for signs that any accelerators have been fitted in the past. I reckon a lot of these old birds that are problematic could be so because of FXtender 3 in 1/Nemesis/Afterburner/ type cards that have been removed without properly restoring the boards back to original spec. These cards have a higher resale value on their own than they do if sold installed in a Falcon. Grab all the manuals from wherever you can find them and use them as a map to locate areas that could have been modded. Carefully remove any mods still in place and carefully re-join all of the cut traces with a single strand copper wire. Kick back and wait for the Dallas RTC to arrive. Put the Dallas chip in, boot your Falcon remembering to reset the NVRAM, see what happens. If you get the Fuji logo - happy days.

Now start testing the DSP....

I'm not saying this WILL help. It's just what I would do. Get back to a known good state and then start adding back the upgrades.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:37 am

Re:SoundDoctor i am staring at the Falcon DSP schematic and i cleary see pin 26 being DSP_A12 bus adress unless my eyes decieve me. Ya i had to cut every pin on old NVRAM chip to desolder cleanly, so its a matter of waiting. Yes i performed cold test and trace test and everything seems A-OK so i really hope the new Dallas chip will solve this issue!! but for some strange reason im not trying to be negative, i feel the NVRAM is not going to be the problem, it just seems far more serious! well lets hope not! im not in position to be buying another Falcon at this moment. Any how again wait and see... thanks for your professional knowledge SD!, i will definitley be reporting back with either good or bad news.
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby SoundDoctor » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:42 am

paul92706 wrote:Re:SoundDoctor i am staring at the Falcon DSP schematic and i cleary see pin 26 being DSP_A12 bus adress unless my eyes decieve me. Ya i had to cut every pin on old NVRAM chip to desolder cleanly, so its a matter of waiting. Yes i performed cold test and trace test and everything seems A-OK so i really hope the new Dallas chip will solve this issue!! but for some strange reason im not trying to be negative, i feel the NVRAM is not going to be the problem, it just seems far more serious! well lets hope not! im not in position to be buying another Falcon at this moment. Any how again wait and see... thanks for your professional knowledge SD!, i will definitley be reporting back with either good or bad news.


Yea, it's a mess Paul. I was looking at the the Falcon030_Tech_Doc_10-1-1992.pdf for the pin assignments - you'll find it on the Wiki. It more or less matches the Motorola data sheets. As far as I can figure out I think they must have changed the 56k package at some point during prototyping and somehow it never made it to the schematic, I could be dead wrong but something doesn't add up if you cross reference the 56k data sheets, the Service Guide, Tech Reference, and what your eyes tell you looking at the actual chip. Nightmare. :(
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby jens » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:49 pm

Hi.
I heard of several other cases of DSP access failure with FalcAMP and other software:

I myself have problems on a Mighty Sonic 32 which loves to freeze when I doubleclick an mp3 file or a m3u, but not always! I'm still investigating the exact circumstances, but there seem to be any! I have absolutely no problems when the Mighty Sonic is working at 16 Mhz without the FastRAM.

Further:
The Mighty Sonic and its predecessor Eagle Sonic seem to have had heavy problems regarding DSP access.
An Afterburner had issues as well before having the DSP clocked to a higher rate than the CPU clock.

A friend mentioned the DSP chip's on-state might be the problem.

I have rare technical knowledge, so I just wanted to mention all this without knowing if it might be of help.
Greetings, Jens

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paul92706
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:41 am

Hi guys, i want to reOpen up this thread, as i am having the same problem, but...but with another Falcon motherboard, how strange same problem but with another motherboard eh? Anyhow i am having same problem unable to use my DSP for any Demos or MP3's, in other words DSP is not working properly. Symptoms are System locks up when i execute MP3's or Demos, Audio will output for a split 3seconds then completely hangup. I Replaced the DSP with a brand new one, i also replaced SRAM's with new ones, i even replaced the U39/U40 TTL's with new ones, i triple checked all signal lines going to Host and SDMA IC's and all signals are good. I checked all Address/Data bus lines and all good, i also reprogrammed GAL's with newones!, so basically the whole DSP circuitry has been replaced. I been at this problem for months and i just can't figure out what the heck is going on. Also for your information i also used the DSP test program, and it passed all Internal and External Ram test, very strange huh? Also this problem persist in 030 and 060 mode no difference. anyhow if you guys have any input please please do feel free!! maybe i am missing something? thanks again guys
Atari Falcon CT60/CTPCI 14MB+ 512mb ATI9250 + NetUSBee
Atari Falcon030 CF 4gb + NetUSBee+ 14MB Ram
Atari TT030 2meg STRAM/16meg TTRAM + Nova Adaptor +Maxtor SCSI HD + DaynaPort Pocket SCSI

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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby Dal » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 am

Just to be clear, is this under Mint or plain TOS?
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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paul92706
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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:11 am

Dal wrote:Just to be clear, is this under Mint or plain TOS?

This is under both, Mint and TOS, so this seems its hardware related huh? I emailed Rodolphe a few weeks ago, and explained this problem to him, he suspected it was a DSP Host Port problem. He suspected that there was a HOST port signal that could be gubbed. But i rechecked several several times, and all DSP Host port signals are present. This is a brain picker, I was begining to think maybe the SRAM are incompatiable with DSP, but these SRAM are standard 32kx8bits Static Rams. I dont know if the speed has something to do with it, i need to get the Data sheets and see what speed they are setup for, so i can post here.
Atari Falcon CT60/CTPCI 14MB+ 512mb ATI9250 + NetUSBee
Atari Falcon030 CF 4gb + NetUSBee+ 14MB Ram
Atari TT030 2meg STRAM/16meg TTRAM + Nova Adaptor +Maxtor SCSI HD + DaynaPort Pocket SCSI

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Re: unable to play mp3's

Postby paul92706 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:56 am

ok guy's looks like we got somthing here. i went into Aniplayer sound config and under "MP? mode with DSP" i set it to "Normal" and under "MP? mode without DSP" i set it to "Normal" then i exited and loaded an MP3 and looks like it is playing now :D the sound is great! but when the song plays it repeats it self every 3-4seconds kinda like a skipping Compact Disc. Now again under sound configuration, also when i click on "Digital" under Sound system and exit and play an MP3 it locks up, so when i revert back to "Analogue" it plays again, now when unclick DSP from pull down menu and i play from DMA under sound config "Digital" or "Analogue" it plays wonderful, no skipping no nothing it plays perfect!! Now am i actually really playing from my DSP ??? i notice when i play from the DSP the harddrive seems to be working, i though DSP gets its data from memory? why does the HD seem to be involved?? hmmm somthing strange here, does anyone know what could be happening? thanks
Atari Falcon CT60/CTPCI 14MB+ 512mb ATI9250 + NetUSBee
Atari Falcon030 CF 4gb + NetUSBee+ 14MB Ram
Atari TT030 2meg STRAM/16meg TTRAM + Nova Adaptor +Maxtor SCSI HD + DaynaPort Pocket SCSI


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