CTX60

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Re: CTX60

Postby Rodolphe » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:09 pm

People who want to contact me to reserve a CTX60 have to send me an email directly to my email address !
I received 2 messages from people via the forum, but I cannot answer : each time the return address is defect !
So, please use my email address.
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:35 pm

A CTX60 (or even just a straight CT60) for the TT perhaps?
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Re: CTX60

Postby DarkLord » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:59 pm

Heck, lets not stop there - I want one for my STacy! :lol:
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Re: CTX60

Postby lschafroth » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:16 pm

Dark Willow wrote:A CTX60 (or even just a straight CT60) for the TT perhaps?


The TT computers can still be purchased. Falcons are impossible. Maybe a CT60 for the TT, that would be cool.

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Re: CTX60

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:08 pm

lschafroth wrote:
Dark Willow wrote:A CTX60 (or even just a straight CT60) for the TT perhaps?


The TT computers can still be purchased. Falcons are impossible. Maybe a CT60 for the TT, that would be cool.


I meant CT / CTX the accelerator, not the "new falcon" PX60. The TT desperately needs a decent 060 accelerator, ideally one with PCI / Radeon support. TT is a stable solid design, great SCSI and good basic architecture, just needs MOAR POWER :mrgreen:
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Re: CTX60

Postby wongck » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:30 pm

Dark Willow wrote:I meant CT / CTX the accelerator, not the "new falcon" PX60. The TT desperately needs a decent 060 accelerator, ideally one with PCI / Radeon support. TT is a stable solid design, great SCSI and good basic architecture, just needs MOAR POWER :mrgreen:


I may be wrong, but several years back, Cxuba said to have asked if anyone interested about one or someone asked him for one.
Must be a thread somewhere in this forum.
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Re: CTX60

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:00 am

wongck wrote:I may be wrong, but several years back, Cxuba said to have asked if anyone interested about one or someone asked him for one.
Must be a thread somewhere in this forum.


I don't think you're wrong there - IIRC, he said he couldn't get enough committed TT
owners at the time. Wasn't that why he never went ahead with it?
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Re: CTX60

Postby vido » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:15 am

DarkLord wrote:I don't think you're wrong there - IIRC, he said he couldn't get enough committed TT
owners at the time. Wasn't that why he never went ahead with it?

I think that was exactly the reason CT60 wasn't produced for the TT. But if there will be PX60 you just put PX60 in TT case and you will have Falcon compatible TT :)

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Re: CTX60

Postby Dark Willow » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:23 am

DarkLord wrote:
wongck wrote:I may be wrong, but several years back, Cxuba said to have asked if anyone interested about one or someone asked him for one.
Must be a thread somewhere in this forum.


I don't think you're wrong there - IIRC, he said he couldn't get enough committed TT
owners at the time. Wasn't that why he never went ahead with it?


Yep. There was a list, apparently about 25 interested, but subsequently got up to around 60 units wanted, but nothing happened. List on AA of interested users at the time (58 units total demand shown).

I imagine that a variant with an integrated PCI slot / Radeon support and ethernet (i.e. CTX60) would attract additional interest given the scarcity of gfx cards for the TT, and the general demand for ethernet adapters.
Last edited by Dark Willow on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CTX60

Postby alanh » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:35 am

It wasn't so much the people who wanted a CT60 for the TT, but who would write the software support for the TOS ROM fixes to 3.06.

Without that there is no CT60 for the TT.
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Re: CTX60

Postby dml » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:01 am

alanh wrote:It wasn't so much the people who wanted a CT60 for the TT, but who would write the software support for the TOS ROM fixes to 3.06.

Without that there is no CT60 for the TT.


An adapted version of the Afterburner 68040 toolkit would probably work for a prototype version and it's easy to modify because it's all code - no firmware stuff/flashing involved.

Based on what Rodolphe told me the CT60 has to do similar sorts of things - perhaps a bit more integrated and tidy, but essentially similar - transferring & patching the TOS image, configuring the PMMU and searching/mapping FastRAM at a sensible address, configuring the caches, marking pages with different cache modes (copyback/writethrough/serialized/nonserialized) etc. The 68040 and 060 are not very different in terms of software configuration and what's needed. Most of the differences are performance related. The TOS image is quite different but the patches needed will be for a similar 'degree' of CPU change.

I was going to make the source public soon anyway. I'm sure somebody could adapt it if a hardware prototype turned up for the TT. I imagine it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem for Rodolphe though - making a prototype without a TOS to test with? It might also be annoying for him to have two very similar cards based on two very different bits of software - different list of support problems etc...

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Re: CTX60

Postby Dark Willow » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:04 am

dml wrote:
alanh wrote:It wasn't so much the people who wanted a CT60 for the TT, but who would write the software support for the TOS ROM fixes to 3.06.

Without that there is no CT60 for the TT.


An adapted version of the Afterburner 68040 toolkit would probably work for a prototype version and it's easy to modify because it's all code - no firmware stuff/flashing involved.

Based on what Rodolphe told me the CT60 has to do similar sorts of things - perhaps a bit more integrated and tidy, but essentially similar - transferring & patching the TOS image, configuring the PMMU and searching/mapping FastRAM at a sensible address, configuring the caches, marking pages with different cache modes (copyback/writethrough/serialized/nonserialized) etc. The 68040 and 060 are not very different in terms of software configuration and what's needed. Most of the differences are performance related. The TOS image is quite different but the patches needed will be for a similar 'degree' of CPU change.

I was going to make the source public soon anyway. I'm sure somebody could adapt it if a hardware prototype turned up for the TT. I imagine it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem for Rodolphe though - making a prototype without a TOS to test with? It might also be annoying for him to have two very similar cards based on two very different bits of software - different list of support problems etc...


If you are happy to release the code, then I'd say do it anyway. That way, people know it's out there and are free to work on it anytime. It might just be the incentive needs for someone to come forward and say they are willing to do the software side if someone is able/willing to work with them on the hardware.

The real question is, just how different is the architecture of TOS 3.x (TT) from 4.x (Falcon)? Whilst I can see how the Afterburner and CT60 software side would share commonality, since they are both working with Falcon TOS, how much of this commonality could be applied to a TT variant CT60/CTX???
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Re: CTX60

Postby dml » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:31 am

Dark Willow wrote:If you are happy to release the code, then I'd say do it anyway. That way, people know it's out there and are free to work on it anytime. It might just be the incentive needs for someone to come forward and say they are willing to do the software side if someone is able/willing to work with them on the hardware.


I'll definitely be releasing the code. I would have done it by now but I started fiddling with it recently to see if I could improve fastram simm type detection as I never quite saw the correct memory size in my own setup. In the end no changes were necessary - I just had an unsuitable simm type. So the original code is good to go as it is.

Dark Willow wrote:The real question is, just how different is the architecture of TOS 3.x (TT) from 4.x (Falcon)? Whilst I can see how the Afterburner and CT60 software side would share commonality, since they are both working with Falcon TOS, how much of this commonality could be applied to a TT variant CT60/CTX???


While there may be gotchas that will surface while trying to adapt the TOS, I don't think the differences can be significant in the areas which will be affected. The TOS could be a complete rewrite and the same issues would still surface -

1) 68060-local FastRAM issues (primarily: no blitter/audio/disk DMA allowed from there): Not much different from TT Ram I would think - same rules apply. Just a case of locating the local ram and mapping it. TT has no blitter so that's one thing less to worry about.

2) PMMU page-based cache configuration for different areas of RAM: HW registers need to be mapped in 'serialized' mode. Display and other STRAM 'nonserialized' or 'writethrough' depending on what the user wants or maybe what TOS wants, all FastRAM can be 'copyback' or 'writethrough'. This stuff is just configured once on boot (AB toolkit installs it on the reset vector so it survives a reset, so it can be configured before TOS even loads) and remains unchanged for the duration.

3) What to do with TT ram? Can the 060 see it? Is it still 32bits wide? Does it need to be cached differently from 060 FastRAM? Only Rodolphe could answer that one but I imagine it would behave much like TT ram normally does - same restrictions apply. In any case, TOS is responsible for mapping it and that can be patched out if required. Would likely be ok as it is.

4) Removing/patching 68030 cache control instructions (CACR access) with 68060 cinv/cpush ops. Same as TOS 4.0x.

5) Similarly removing any 68030 transparent translation/PMMU stuff the TT TOS might be using, in favour of 68060 PMMU tables. Same as TOS 4.0x.

6) I don't know much about the TT's audio capabilities but if it's anything like the STE DMA then some patches might be required, although this may be covered by (2) and (4) already. Falcon has same issues anyway.

7) Crash exception handler (optional) - something to replace the Atari 'bombs'. I don't think I bothered with this at all on 040 so a crash is just a proper crash. The CT60 has a crash-postmortem screen with a status dump - which was probably a bit of effort to do. The same code would work on TT+060 if it was needed.

Might be some other stuff I have forgotten - but I think those are the main points. Basically, the TOS is different but the patching and config process will likely be much the same.

I'll post a link when I put the sourcecode up for the 040 version.

[ADDENDUM]

One thing that might cause a problem, is where the TT TOS is already using PMMU page tables - that would be a bit harder to undo/rework because things might not be where they appear to be - removing the old PMMU stuff would effectively break the memory map and require the new PMMU code to replicate the same behaviour plus the required changes. However the Falcon didn't use that stuff so I don't see why the TT would, given that it's an earlier (and simpler) TOS revision.

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Re: CTX60

Postby wongck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:02 pm

alanh wrote:It wasn't so much the people who wanted a CT60 for the TT, but who would write the software support for the TOS ROM fixes to 3.06.
Without that there is no CT60 for the TT.


Yes, this is true.
May be CTX60 is having the same issue.
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Re: CTX60

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:16 pm

wongck wrote:
alanh wrote:It wasn't so much the people who wanted a CT60 for the TT, but who would write the software support for the TOS ROM fixes to 3.06.
Without that there is no CT60 for the TT.


Yes, this is true.
May be CTX60 is having the same issue.


Wonder if there is any way we could get someone like Holger Zimmerman interested in this?

He's the guy that modified TOS 3.06 for the PAK accelerator boards. He was nice enough to
take the German version, convert it to English and send the files to me for burning. (and
he did it free of charge, although I offered to pay - well worth it).

Not sure how much (if any) experience he has with Falcons and/or 060's though...
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Re: CTX60

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:52 pm

Rodolphe wrote:People who want to contact me to reserve a CTX60 have to send me an email directly to my email address !
I received 2 messages from people via the forum, but I cannot answer : each time the return address is defect !
So, please use my email address.


Hello, I have a problem contacting you through your email so I don't know what to do really. I would love to reserve a CTX60, but when I send an email it gets bounced back like this:

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
each recipient was rejected.

Recipient: <rodolphe.czuba@free.fr>
Reason: Too many spams from your IP (75.180.132.120), please visit http://postmaster.free.fr/


The following websites may contain more information to assist you:

http://help.rr.com/HMSLogic/rrmail.aspx

http://postmaster.rr.com/help

Please do not reply to this message, as it will go to an unread
mailbox



Reporting-MTA: dns; cdptpa-qmta01.mail.rr.com
Arrival-Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:07:36 +0000
Received-From-MTA: dns; cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (10.127.143.54)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; <rodolphe.czuba@free.fr>
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: dns; mx1.free.fr (212.27.48.7)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 Too many spams from your IP (75.180.132.120), please visit http://postmaster.free.fr/


I have no idea what that ip it is listing 75.180.132.120..I guess a mail relay. I use a large internet provider here in the usa, time warner cable roadrunner..maybe there is a lot of spam from them? dunno.

I had this problem in the past too when I was ordering the ctcpi..I ended up having to pm you here :?

Well anyway, I will send you a pm to see it I can reserve it that way.

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Re: CTX60

Postby wongck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:05 pm

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:I had this problem in the past too when I was ordering the ctcpi..I ended up having to pm you here :?
Well anyway, I will send you a pm to see it I can reserve it that way.


Yes, I too encountered this issue with his email server.
But lately this issue went away for me.
My email is Yahoo, so I am not surprise that it consider mine as spam.
But keep trying, it will get through finally. :angel:
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Re: CTX60

Postby Dark Willow » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:46 pm

Has there been anymore information about the PX60 / Falcon060 (standalone system)? Any idea how much interest there is?
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Re: CTX60

Postby mikro » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:14 pm

nativ wrote:If I get what you are saying right, it really should be a Falcon compatible computer on it's own rather than an expansion board? How much more dev would it take?

Few years later we know the answer: it would take exactly one skilled engineer from the Czech Republic. :-)


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