Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby joska » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:12 am

HypView displaying toshyp.

IMAG0238.resized.jpg
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby jfl » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:59 am

joska wrote:HypView displaying toshyp.

Thanks for the pictures. But what's up with the palette? The colours of icons seem wrong.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby joska » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:17 pm

I noticed that too. Perhaps these icons are created with the NVDI palette. The Firebee is using the standard Atari palette.

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby AtariSociety » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 am

Thanks for the pics.

Do you have the PC Board cased or just laying out on table?

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby joska » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:38 pm

I have not cased it yet.

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby AtariSociety » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:18 am

How about some speed tests? Are there apps that show the speed of this system relative to other older Ataris? Would be cool to see how many times in all areas the FireBee will be faster.

Would also be sweet for some vids showing FireBee booting so we can see how long it takes to boot, then running some real world apps and games to see how it behaves.

Now hop on that please. hehehehe :twisted: :twisted:

Can't wait for the FireBee to be on general sale for all.

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby christos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:47 am

macsociety wrote:How about some speed tests? Are there apps that show the speed of this system relative to other older Ataris? Would be cool to see how many times in all areas the FireBee will be faster.

Would also be sweet for some vids showing FireBee booting so we can see how long it takes to boot, then running some real world apps and games to see how it behaves.


tj


I think OL has run some benchmarks and It's about 2 times the speed of a ct60. Not sure if it's with 68K emulation or native though.

About games. I believe nothing will run... I've only managed to run 3 st games on ct63 and 5-6 falcon ones anyway. Perhaps robinson's requiem could be run but I imagine it would cause a horrible crash!
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby AtariSociety » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:42 am

christos wrote:
macsociety wrote:How about some speed tests? Are there apps that show the speed of this system relative to other older Ataris? Would be cool to see how many times in all areas the FireBee will be faster.

Would also be sweet for some vids showing FireBee booting so we can see how long it takes to boot, then running some real world apps and games to see how it behaves.


tj


I think OL has run some benchmarks and It's about 2 times the speed of a ct60. Not sure if it's with 68K emulation or native though.

About games. I believe nothing will run... I've only managed to run 3 st games on ct63 and 5-6 falcon ones anyway. Perhaps robinson's requiem could be run but I imagine it would cause a horrible crash!


So I take it a machine like this or the CT series like yours is meant for non game use and more pro use for DTP and Music apps, etc...

What are the folks that own the CT series doing with their systems all these years?

I am not much of a gamer and have older Atari STs to play them when I want but wonder what people use these faster and more powerful CT series or the upcoming FireBee for then?

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby vido » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:41 am

macsociety wrote:So I take it a machine like this or the CT series like yours is meant for non game use and more pro use for DTP and Music apps, etc...

What are the folks that own the CT series doing with their systems all these years?

I am not much of a gamer and have older Atari STs to play them when I want but wonder what people use these faster and more powerful CT series or the upcoming FireBee for then?

tj


I believe on the beginning it will be much more as a Milan computer regarding usage.
I have Milan and I was very satisfied with it. I used it form my every day work. Most important for me there
was MiNT running as I programm a lot remotely on the terminal.

With Papyrus it was great office machine. All documentation I had to do it was done with it.
I was also surfing the net with HighWire as much as HW was able to show. With NetSurf web browser this will
much improve on Firebee. It goes the same for the oter Ataris.

With DSP on the Firebee there will be some more posiibilities concerning software. I dont know how much
compatible it will be, but I hope I will be able to run NeoN Grafix 3D software. I believe it should work?
If there will be running Apex Media it would be also great. Well I believe we can expect some Falcon (DSP)
software will run on Firebee in contrary to Milan.

Concerning games I was unable to run any except some GEM games and SDL ports oc Doom, Quake, ...

I know I will use Firebee on daily basis.
My Milan was running 6 years without to be switched off except for GFX and SounfBlaster card switch.
I expect it will be the same with my Firebee.

My Milan is now resting due to HDD crash but it will be in function again when I get FB.

This is my view how I will use my FB :)

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby christos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:37 am

The CT came out at a time that virtually noone made games for the ataris. Also at a time where the only people with the know how to make games, the ST scene, had shifted focus from the Falcon to the STE. So what little games for the falcon we saw were ports of sdl stuff such as Scummvm, or of existing pc games like Duke and Quake and Doom. These open source games are of course compilable on a CF and thus can be played.

When you ask what we do about gaming, fortunately getting back to 030 mode is trivial, since all it takes is a switch and a reboot. Perhaps the firebee's incorporating of suska can work the same way and you can have an ST. Anyway, if I were to test some games on the firebee it would be the ones that are compatible with Aranym, perhaps double bobble 2000 and also some of the fixes by D-but that work on the 060, such as Star Wars.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby jfl » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:04 pm

vido wrote:My Milan is now resting due to HDD crash

Not surprising after running non-stop for 6 years :)
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby SofiST » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:19 pm

vido wrote:...
Concerning games I was unable to run any except some GEM games and SDL ports oc Doom, Quake, ...


ST(E), Falcon games were made without knowing about future ST compatible machines, with intention to get out max of limited and slow HW. + in 99% cases to run from floppies only. For good work on more-less compatible stronger machines taking care about some things by programming is needed.
I would try with games made by Atari in first place - they are usually made according to rules proposed by Atari ( :D ) . But often problem is to fast gameplay on faster clones. It is again because of not optimal programming - as gamespeed control best method is to sync. it with some MFP timer. Instead, it is done just depending on CPU and it's speed. Less bad is when V-blank is used as speed control, but still bad as on VGA it will run 40% faster than on PAL. As example I can give 3D game Castle Master:
framerate is bad on ST (8 MHz). If run on faster CPU framerate is better, but whole gameplay is faster too, so hard to play. Bad programming, for sure.

Why no games for CT, Milan etc ? I think that it is obvious - very limited user base, + game programming is pretty hard and demanding job. People who really knows it must live from something ...
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby christos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:24 pm

40%???? I'd say about 20%, as much faster as a game made for pal will run on ntsc. VGA is 60Hz. Most of the time you can hear the difference instead of see it since most st games are two vbl anyway.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby SofiST » Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:34 pm

I calculated with ergonomic 70 Hz VGA. But I really don't know what is exact freq by Milan, TT, etc ...
Actually - it is changeable, for sure, and depend from used driver, settings.
Most ST games 2 Vbl ? Certainly not. It would mean 25 fps, but it is actually rear case, max. some 10% .
Some are in range of 2-5 fps - Test Drive serial, Blue Max, Hower Sprint, Fire and Ice, etc ........................ And not only 3D games .
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Re: Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby joska » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:35 pm

christos wrote:Perhaps the firebee's incorporating of suska can work the same way and you can have an ST.


That's the way to do it. The entire ST can be implemented in the FPGA, like it's been done on the Suska. The CPU can also be implemented in the FPGA, or it can be emulated by the Coldfire CPU. So the Firebee can be made much more compatible to the ST than a Falcon.

Personally I will use the Firebee like I use my Milan today. I have little interest in gaming on the ST/Falcon.

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby warp12 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Just curious...how does the speed of Firebee compare to Aranym using JIT on a high-end PC?

I have only dabbled with Aranym...it seemed promising, although user-hostile. :)
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby joska » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:09 pm

warp12 wrote:Just curious...how does the speed of Firebee compare to Aranym using JIT on a high-end PC?


I don't have a high-end PC (my most modern PC is a 2.6GHz P4) but I would imagine that Aranym would be several times faster than the Firebee on modern hardware.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby wongck » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:33 pm

warp12 wrote:user-hostile. :)

:?: :?:
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby AtariSociety » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:40 am

Mathias wrote:
macsociety wrote:Any chance we get to see a picture of the case design sometime soon? This month maybe. hehehe

You will see them soon at http://acp.atari.org . I am just waiting for the translation of our huge (really huge) news-entry for the last 2 months.

macsociety wrote: Was looking at Amiga's MiniMig cases and they are nice. I get the whole keeping it small thing now.

Well, I hope others will too. As it is not the only possibility for enclosures, I hope some of you will love the small case.


I have been checking every day to see if new info is posted about the FireBee on the acp.atari.org site but nothing so far. :(

Need tooooo seeee thatttt case...... soon. I need a fix. hehehehe :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby vido » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:42 am

macsociety wrote:I have been checking every day to see if new info is posted about the FireBee on the acp.atari.org site but nothing so far. :(

Need tooooo seeee thatttt case...... soon. I need a fix. hehehehe :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

tj


Its the same here, but as it is taking so long I guess he is waiting another translations of aditional huge
news-entry :)
Ta least I hope so ... :)
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby Mathias » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:37 pm

Finally the news are online. You can also see the prototypes of the enclosure.

Please look at http://acp.atari.org for the news.




Well and about all that "speed issues". It makes no real sense.
I give you an example: We had several tests with POV:

"The results are:
pov020.ttp on ARAnyM-JIT: 142 seconds
pov020.ttp on CT60/100MHz: 169 seconds
povv2e.ttp on FireBee/264MHz: 78 seconds

Without any doubt, the FireBee is the fastest Atari machine or emulator to run POV-Ray" regarding bulk standard Aranym.

Than Olivier improved Aranym JIT (I think he recompiled it) and we at ACP discovered that Aranym JIT would need 16 seconds down to 11 seconds for the same test when optimizing Aranym. I don´t know if anything of this binary changes went into ARAnyM 0.9.11 Windows/Cygwin binary.


And what does it tell us? "At one very special Test, the FireBee is two times faster than the Standard Aranym at a High End Windows PC. But if someone improves Aranym, Aranym gets 7 times faster" , ...

Well, same here: http://kronos.lutece.net/
Change the CF-Card with a recent SATA HD, or attach a Radeon 9250 and you will get other results.

Didier is improving the FPU recently, Fredi Aschwanden will start a own 68klib in summer, etc. etc. So prepare to have changed value all the time. At some point a CT 63 or Hades will for sure be faster, at others the FireBee will be the fastest availaible Atari environment.

So What?
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:42 pm

Mathias wrote:Finally the news are online. You can also see the prototypes of the enclosure.


Comparing it to the mouse is great, one can actually see the size.
If you have it square, it can become the mouse pad !!
Then it will be like taking zero space on the desk :mrgreen:
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:50 pm

Mathias wrote:At some point a CT 63 or Hades will for sure be faster, at others the FireBee will be the fastest availaible Atari environment.
So What?


Just by clock speed alone, it's like Intel vs AMD scenario... the higher clock is deemed as the fastest.
Until AMD did an equivalent clock speed rating name to their processor, lay man like me will see not see it.
So for ppl like me, I look at clock speed and see the higher one as faster.... this being the Firebee.

For Aranym, it's cannot be used to compare. What is a high-end PC of last year compared to this year is a mid/low-end.
Every year or so, the performance will increase and it will lead again.
Just raw cpu power, without optimisation, it will win eventually in years to come because of hardware for Intel/AMD gets faster.
Of course unless Firebee also upgrades the CPU to faster in a yearly (or 2 yearly) basis.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby Mathias » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:51 pm

wongck wrote:If you have it square, it can become the mouse pad !!

No it´s too small you would need at least two cases for getting a good mouse pad. But I doubt alu is a good pad. 8)
MegaST 4 with Sounddesigner II MegaBus hardware and 56001, Hades 040, MagiC Mac at Mac OS 9 and a FireBee.
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Re: Firebee (ACP) - Let's make it a REAL success!

Postby vido » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:28 pm

Mathias wrote:Finally the news are online. You can also see the prototypes of the enclosure.

Please look at http://acp.atari.org for the news.


Finally! And what a news! :)
Firebee is progressing really well in my eyes. Soon it will be finished enough for me to buy it.
I like the enclosure and waiting to be available and price defined.

But to be really usable I need working MiNT setup. Any news about that?
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