Interpreting errors in floimg

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Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby snoopy » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:35 pm

Hi,
just creating dumps of powerpack4. The disks are too fragile for using them in an Atari.
Even in floimg I'm getting random crc errors. Sometimes they appear in certain sectors the next time I try they don't. What does that mean?
Even if there's a crc error, it creates an image. Does that mean the image is ok and it got all the data off the floppy or just that it skipped the sector and the image is bad?
Thanks for looking into it.
Cheers, snoopy
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:44 pm

If they are original disks then perhaps it is their copy protection?

You might need to risk them in a good Atari floppy drive with PASTI
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby havoc » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:49 pm

floimg is notoriously unreliable, better use pasti, makedisk, or any other imaging tool really...
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:56 pm

snoopy wrote:just creating dumps of powerpack4. The disks are too fragile for using them in an Atari.


Fragile?
What i find is that my floppies go mouldy....
OK, so I am in the tropics. Not in UK.
Anyway, for me it's just remove it and run it under the tap and gently rub off the mould.
Fit it back and it reads fine. :mrgreen:
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:20 pm

havoc wrote:floimg is notoriously unreliable, better use pasti, makedisk, or any other imaging tool really...

Really? It has worked fine for me on everything I've ever thrown at it. Including extreme format disks. Although I've tended to READ rather than WRITE.

Floimg is so much more convenient to use than rebooting to DOS to use Makedisk 1.5
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby snoopy » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:05 pm

Strange thing... I get the same dust scratches and high pitch whining with this batch of disks as with pasti... it's a pity, since I only know of 2 existing sets of this particular powerpack (4)... it'd be great for the community to get the images on atarimania (you can already see my scans there: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-st ... 24846.html). The second set is an almost mint one even with the box (and only lent by a good friend)... but as long s there's danger of killing them, I'll stick to the batch I tried to image with pasti and floimg. So far 4 got killed and only one survived imaging which is pretty bad.
Maybe I'll try any othe image program (maybe the disks are moldy indeed or the protective layer is rubbing off...). To all of you out there, do you know of any other Powerpack4 in existance that could be imaged (I think my drives are "cursed" ;-), since I tried on 3 Ataris to image them and one PC, even cleaning the drives didn't help)?
I hope nevertheless to be able to get the original compilation disks to preservation one day .
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:00 pm

Won't most Atari's take a brand new PC drives as long as they have a drive number jumper?

You should be able to buy brand new disk drives which work with Atari ST(e) / TT / Falcon.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby havoc » Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:41 pm

alexh wrote:Really? It has worked fine for me on everything I've ever thrown at it. Including extreme format disks. Although I've tended to READ rather than WRITE.

Floimg is so much more convenient to use than rebooting to DOS to use Makedisk 1.5

yes, really. consider yourself lucky, others were far less fortunate.

by the way, makedisk works OK under windows too (tested upto winxp).
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby Marakatti » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:41 am

I've also converted well over 300 disks with floimg without any problems. Excellent program at least for my needs. Some disks may need 2 or 3 runs to convert well or then they are usually damaged.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:47 am

alexh wrote:Won't most Atari's take a brand new PC drives as long as they have a drive number jumper?

You should be able to buy brand new disk drives which work with Atari ST(e) / TT / Falcon.


only for TT & Falc. Not so for ST(e).
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby SofiST » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:06 pm

snoopy wrote:Hi,
just creating dumps of powerpack4. The disks are too fragile for using them in an Atari.
Even in floimg I'm getting random crc errors. Sometimes they appear in certain sectors the next time I try they don't. What does that mean?
Even if there's a crc error, it creates an image. Does that mean the image is ok and it got all the data off the floppy or just that it skipped the sector and the image is bad?
Thanks for looking into it.
Cheers, snoopy


Too fragile for Atari ??? It depends from drive self, not computer - some drives may causing more wearing on old floppies.

CRC error may show in case of some copy protections, but then always on same place. In case of CRC error sector will be not skipped, but content is more-less damaged, inaccurate. If RNF error happens, then sector is skipped. Image is 'bad' in both cases. However sometimes you just don't need damaged parts (files), so may extract what is good from image.
Experts may even to compose complete files from few damaged ones - in case of multiple copies and errors not on same place in file.

What I can recommend in case of CRC errors is to try with other floppy drive.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:02 pm

wongck wrote:
alexh wrote:Won't most Atari's take a brand new PC drives as long as they have a drive number jumper?

You should be able to buy brand new disk drives which work with Atari ST(e) / TT / Falcon.


only for TT & Falc. Not so for ST(e).

You sure? I thought if you had an AJAX then everything was fine, you could even get 1.44Mbyte?
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:28 pm

alexh wrote:
wongck wrote:
alexh wrote:Won't most Atari's take a brand new PC drives as long as they have a drive number jumper?

You should be able to buy brand new disk drives which work with Atari ST(e) / TT / Falcon.


only for TT & Falc. Not so for ST(e).

You sure? I thought if you had an AJAX then everything was fine, you could even get 1.44Mbyte?


Sure if AJax is there, it's fine.
That's what is on the TT & falcon isn't it?
normal ST(e) are without Ajax.

HMS Ajax.... cool :mrgreen:
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby SofiST » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:34 am

havoc wrote:yes, really. consider yourself lucky, others were far less fortunate.
by the way, makedisk works OK under windows too (tested upto winxp).


It is not matter of fortune, but depends from users knowledge, willingnes to read manual and of course how Windows XP is healthy.
Your testings of Makedisk under XP ? It works not at all. Makedisk may work max. up to WIn 98/Millennium. But not under NT, XP etc. Not on some new, faster CPU.
Only SW capable to handle non-DOS floppies (read: 10 sectors/track and similar) under XP is: OmniFLop and FloImg. And reason is that both use special floppy driver instead XP's very limited one.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:04 pm

wongck wrote:normal ST(e) are without Ajax.

Pretty sure both my MegaSTe and late model STe came with AJAX chips. It is pin compatible with the earlier WD1772? I will check and report back.

But I could have sworn I read that later revision WD1772 will work with PC drives too, without changing the crystal on the drive mechanism.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby havoc » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:49 pm

SofiST wrote:It is not matter of fortune, but depends from users knowledge, willingnes to read manual and of course how Windows XP is healthy.
Your testings of Makedisk under XP ? It works not at all. Makedisk may work max. up to WIn 98/Millennium. But not under NT, XP etc. Not on some new, faster CPU.
Only SW capable to handle non-DOS floppies (read: 10 sectors/track and similar) under XP is: OmniFLop and FloImg. And reason is that both use special floppy driver instead XP's very limited one.

are you ppera..?
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:25 pm

For me, Makedisk always failed to read 10 sector disks and 82 track disks reliably under Win98. If you rebooted to DOS it worked fine.

floimg however read these type of disks, under XP, fine every time. But like I said, I hardly ever tried to write back disks.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby SofiST » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:13 pm

havoc wrote:...
are you ppera..?


It seems that not :) And who is who will not solve that Makedisk start to work under people's WinXP. Maybe to focus on technical things: then you may find that what most of members wrote here is correct.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby havoc » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:22 pm

sofist: sorry, seems that just like with ppera, i cannot decipher more than half of your scribblings, so continuing this discussion makes no sense. i wish you the best of luck in finding out if windows xp is healthy!
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:26 pm

i wish you the best of luck in finding out if windows xp is healthy!


in general, WinXP is not a good OS but what can you do when >50% of the world users thinks that it's great.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:37 pm

wongck wrote:WinXP is not a good OS

Compared to what?

Most users like it because it was soooooooo much better than Win9x in terms of stability and Vista was sooooooo bad in terms of unnecessary UI changes and overall speed.

I'm gonna try Makedisk under XP this week and report back.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:43 pm

alexh wrote:Compared to what?


I would take a stab at OS X.

The same wireless hardware - Intel mobo installing WinXP dual boot to OS X - WinXP drops signal and at 1 bar most of the time, OS X gave me 4 bars and solid signals with no drops.
BTW, I needed drivers for the WinXP because it did not know what was that wireless card, while OS X just started running it without me even doing anything.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby alexh » Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:50 pm

Probably not a good comparison as you're not comparing OS features / stability. You're talking about 3rd party stuff.

The wireless card must be newer than XP but older than (your version) OS X hence the differing need for drivers.

The windows driver could have been much older than the OS X driver. Did you try the manufacturers website for the latest version? If it was the absolutely the latest version and there was still a discrepancy in performance between XP and OS X then it just shows what a crappy company it was that made it.
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby wongck » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:29 pm

It's the latest version of driver....
and yes, it's crappy indeed.... some made in Taiwan product but US brand :lol:
Anyway, that OSX was not legit and I removed it after a couple of days of playing.....
Just to try out as one of my matey found it laying around somewhere :wink:

Anyway it was a good experience.... didn't realised that wireless was working so easily, the key was asked...
Next thing I knew, it was on the net. 8O just muck around with safari and it loaded a HTML page.

Scary as it could have already sent some stuff out without me knowing...

I think it is indeed comparing a feature because wireless on WinXP was not so easy to get it working.
Even with SP3 wireless tools... still not as powerful as the one on OSX.
Now on my WinXP I resorted to the wireless program that came with the device.
This one give me better 3 bars compared to 1 bar using WinXP wireless program (and it drops signal).
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Re: Interpreting errors in floimg

Postby Desty » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:20 am

Indeed XP was often a pain with drivers and handling of wifi. I had an Acer (oh-oh!) laptop with a dodgy internal Prism2.5 mini-PCI wifi dongle which started to act up after a service pack update. Booting over to linux, I could mess around, add debugging printks to the drive module and unload/reload it with a script when it died, but the WinXP driver and Microsoft's wifi tools couldn't handle it.

Ended up speaking to first Acer on the phone (it was actually more useful to call their offices in Taiwan and speak to an engineer in bad Chinese than to speak with their braindead, computer illiterate morons in the nearest call-centre (Scotland apparently - I'll never forget the 13 minutes of Jean Michel Jarre hold music before they cut you off)), and eventually to the interesting guy in the USA who wrote the original Intersil driver.

XP was a huge step forward, but people are starting to realise now that Windows 7 and even Vista are much better in a lot of ways.
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