BeePi 1.0

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby Faucon2001 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:44 am

As Wongck said, it’s an issue with your router.
I have tested with different routers, 2 were working correctly with the default setup, and 1 was not working.

The workaround is to configure BeePi bridge address on a different subnetwork than your router.
If your router address is 192.168.1.1, then set the bridge host address to 192.168.0.50 and the Atari ip to 192.168.0.51.
To do so, open Aranym setup ( Alt Gr + F12), select “Networking “ and change “Host ip “ and “Atari ip “ accordingly. Save the configuration file and do a cold reboot.

Don’t ask me the reason why, I have no clue.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:35 am

Wow, that's completely unintuitive, but it works! I would not have tried that without your suggestion.

Strange because I use bridged connections on virtualbox and they work fine with my router. But as you said, 2 out of 3 routers work with the default setup so I'm with you...don't have any idea why this is necessary.

Thanks for the help. Hopefully helps someone else also :cheers:

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:48 am

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:The difference with beepi is we are dealing with 3 ips....the host (physical interface), the virtual ip (TAP interface) and the MiNT interface (bridged)

The host side is 192.168.1.8
The host virtual is 192.168.1.50
The MiNT bridged is 192.168.1.51


Well I don't know about this 3 ips and TAP thingy is all about but may be some basic networking helps.

From what I can understand:
The host side is 192.168.1.8 --> physical address of your computer = really this will not come into the equation as far as Mint/Atari network config.
The host virtual is 192.168.1.50 --> Is this what Mint is only seeing ? (see TAP = pipe below)
The MiNT bridged is 192.168.1.51 --> ip on Mint/Atari (i think)

So Mint can only see 1 ip --> 192.168.1.50 so this must be the gateway... if my understanding of TAP is correct ( basically a pipe with 2 ip address at the end - one for the physical PC and one for Atari and these are only connected pc ) but I am known to be very wrong mostly.

So setting gateway to 192.168.1.1 will not work because Mint cannot see this 192.168.1.1 from one end of the TAP pipe --it only see 192.168.1.50.

Basically gateway is like real world DHL whereby you say "hey DHL deliver this package for me as I do not know how to get to that address in Siberia"
My guess is the TAP software should route to other ip address ( it does as mentioned you can get external sites address like Siberian addresses)

Now if you ping 192.168.1.8 from Atari/Mint AND gateway is 192.168.1.50... it basically goes out to the pipe and hits the TAP software. TAP will say "oh this is for local address ... not Siberia" and just not forward the package to Siberia. So TAP leave it as that, knowing that some computer in the local address (subnet 192.168.1.0) will pick it up. Of course none is there except Atari and TAP because the pipe has only 2 computers.
So your ping is not hitting the destination.

Faucon2001 wrote:The workaround is to configure BeePi bridge address on a different subnetwork than your router.
Don’t ask me the reason why, I have no clue.

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:Wow, that's completely unintuitive, but it works!


If you set another subnet for TAP/Atari ==> 192.168.0.50 and 192.168.0.51.
Then you can already see that 192.168.1.1 is not local and is out somewhere in Siberia. And so TAP will say "this looks like for someone in Siberia" and deliver it out.

Well may be this posting here explains better.

Anyway.... my page was written for a network with lots of computer in the local network, not for 2.
And so yes, TAP bridge stuff is a different beast.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:02 pm

Yes, TAP should be invisible to the router and the bridge should make the MiNT layer running over the host look just like another local device on the lan. If fact, it works this way with my other bridged connections...sooo not sure why aranym is behaving differently. Thankfully there is a easy solution.

I do think this would be a good point to note in the installation guide. Because most people wouldn't think to change the default behavior and put the bridged connection on a different subnet. It's a little odd.

P.S.
Now if you ping 192.168.1.8 from Atari/Mint AND gateway is 192.168.1.50... it basically goes out to the pipe and hits the TAP software. TAP will say "oh this is for local address ... not Siberia" and just not forward the package to Siberia. So TAP leave it as that, knowing that some computer in the local address (subnet 192.168.1.0) will pick it up. Of course none is there except Atari and TAP because the pipe has only 2 computers.
So your ping is not hitting the destination.


This would make sense, but Phillippe says 2 out of 3 routers work without changing the subnet...so the bridged packets would be getting to the router.

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:11 pm

There are many route discovery protocols so some may work better than others. Depends on what is implemented in the router hardware.
With my Falcon, I ping my Internet gateway and certain routers takes 5-6 mins before it discover the route.
With my more expensive router, in between, it does it is in may be 30 secs.
My Atari is just 4 subnet away from my Internet gateway, so go figure.

Edit: I do put manual routes into my router so that ping from my Atari are coming back in milliseconds, but really the slowness is only in the beginning when the route tables are not build yet by the routers. After the slow start, it goes faster.
Last edited by wongck on Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:22 pm

My Hades, Beepi and STE are all connected to the router from the same room via CAT5 cabling. So if the router's route discovery protocol was awry then the Hades and STE would figure to be affected as MagicNet is very similar to MiNTNet. But they both work seamlessly. If the bridged packets appear to the router as normal non-bridged lan packets, then there should be no difference in behavior between the Beepi networking and the STE/Hades.

The fact that there is an issue tells me that the bridged packets are different in some way when they are seen by the router. How they are different? I am with Phillippe, have no idea, but the packets have to have identifying information in them for replies to be returned to the physical interface (192.168.1.8 in this case). So there must be some state inspection by the router. Probably where the issue is arising from.

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:26 pm

yes, the bridge uses MAC address to figure out which network to bridge to.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:30 pm

Yeah, so my router is probably saying "hey, your bridged packet has the same subnet and MAC address as the physical interface, so I'm not going to forward your packet to avoid extraneous network traffic΅

But when there is a different subnet in the packet, even with the same MAC, the router algorithm lets it go through. Strange behavior for sure.

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:35 pm

May be wireshark is needed here. Nah better just stick to playing on the Atari :mrgreen:

Glad it's working for you now. :cheers:
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby wongck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:18 pm

Subnets are free so just use them instead of calculating the correct subnet mask for the TAP pipe for 4 devices. :wink:
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:24 pm

I see an ARAnyM update was released this year. Lots of fixes and improvements. Any plans to update Beepi and Beekey/Beebox?

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby Faucon2001 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:29 am

Yes it will be updated, I am still maintaining BeePi. Just be patient as I don’t have the time to do it right now.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:54 pm

Nice. Thanks for the confirmation!

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:47 pm

I noticed on Kronos, you can load a profile for aranym_pi3_jit and it is actually faster than the beepi as the results show (jit results listed as "Raspberry Pi 3B", Beepi results as "Your computer" ):

kronos.png


So I assume Beepi isn't using the ARAnyM J(ust)I(n)T(ime) version. Am I correct in this?
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby ragnar76 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:10 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:Yes it will be updated, I am still maintaining BeePi. Just be patient as I don’t have the time to do it right now.

I'm jumping in here and ask my question... ;) What about the Raspberry Pi 4? Do you plan to "port" it?

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Re: BeePi 1.0ground

Postby Faucon2001 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:56 pm

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:I noticed on Kronos, you can load a profile for aranym_pi3_jit and it is actually faster than the beepi as the results show (jit results listed as "Raspberry Pi 3B", Beepi results as "Your computer" ):

kronos.png

So I assume Beepi isn't using the ARAnyM J(ust)I(n)T(ime) version. Am I correct in this?

No, that’s not correct. Aranym in BeePi is run in JIT mode
First, I did this benchmark myself with BeePi, secondly I used an overclocked Pi3B (10% faster)
Non JIT is 10 times slower.
Regarding FPU result , don’t use the 68040 mode, but the 68882 which is faster.
Regarding the VDI result, I don’t remember as I have built so many different version of accelerated SDL 1.2 for Raspi 3. Screen resolution, and services running in background may interfere also.
So excepted for the fpu, your results look ok.
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby Faucon2001 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:58 pm

ragnar76 wrote:
Faucon2001 wrote:Yes it will be updated, I am still maintaining BeePi. Just be patient as I don’t have the time to do it right now.

I'm jumping in here and ask my question... ;) What about the Raspberry Pi 4? Do you plan to "port" it?

Yes, but I need a Raspi 4 and time, and right now I don’t have nor one nor the other :wink:
Philippe

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My music http://www.philippeworld.net/
My photography http://phil-67.deviantart.com/
EasyAraMint, BeeKey and BeePi https://sites.google.com/site/beebox68k/

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Re: BeePi 1.0ground

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:
TheNameOfTheGame wrote:I noticed on Kronos, you can load a profile for aranym_pi3_jit and it is actually faster than the beepi as the results show (jit results listed as "Raspberry Pi 3B", Beepi results as "Your computer" ):

kronos.png

So I assume Beepi isn't using the ARAnyM J(ust)I(n)T(ime) version. Am I correct in this?

No, that’s not correct. Aranym in BeePi is run in JIT mode
First, I did this benchmark myself with BeePi, secondly I used an overclocked Pi3B (10% faster)
Non JIT is 10 times slower.
Regarding FPU result , don’t use the 68040 mode, but the 68882 which is faster.
Regarding the VDI result, I don’t remember as I have built so many different version of accelerated SDL 1.2 for Raspi 3. Screen resolution, and services running in background may interfere also.
So excepted for the fpu, your results look ok.


Ah, thanks for clarifying. Yes, I tested the FPU under 68040.

Btw, Beepi is *very* fast. Using the new SD card I posted above, which has made such a difference, it is wonderful to use.

Eventually I'm sure you'll get to PI4 and ARAnyM 1.1.0. I read some of the issues with compiling in the google groups discussion, so I understand it is a process which has to be worked on.

But this current distro is great! :cheers:

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby ragnar76 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Faucon2001 wrote:
ragnar76 wrote:
Faucon2001 wrote:Yes it will be updated, I am still maintaining BeePi. Just be patient as I don’t have the time to do it right now.

I'm jumping in here and ask my question... ;) What about the Raspberry Pi 4? Do you plan to "port" it?

Yes, but I need a Raspi 4 and time, and right now I don’t have nor one nor the other :wink:

If you want or need it, i can lend you my spare rpi4 with 2gb ram

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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby Faucon2001 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:27 pm

Thanks Ragnar, but I will buy one. As I said, just be patient
Philippe

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My music http://www.philippeworld.net/
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Re: BeePi 1.0

Postby ragnar76 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:12 pm

Okay, the offer is still there :)


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