S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

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S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby ppera » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:16 pm

This is easy to do, almost free (only need to buy cable with S-Video connector) modification for STE, ST or even Falcon. After it, you will have not composite out more (but will have B/W on regular out), just to mention, but who needs it, when have much better one.
Will have much sharper, cleaner picture via TV card on PC, or TV with S-Video input.

Modification of STE's PAL encoder for getting S-Video:
STE's PAL encoder, modded :
svidste.jpg

Hardest part is to removing DL1 (reactangle shape plastic) and L403 (square shape, metal with hole at top). You need soldering iron, at least of 60W and vacuum pump. Disassemble machine, so can desolder from bottom side of mainboard. It is not so simple, and requires some practice. Need to hold soldering iron for longer at pins, that it can melt at both sides of pcb. Especially is hard to desolder pins where GND is, as there are wider copper leads, which pull a lot of warmness.
After it is easy. Add wire between left pin of R467 and right pin of resistor below. On pic, it is grey wire painted to blue at middle. Actually, it connects pin 8 of MC1377 with resistor of 1.2 K. See schematic lower.
Last thing is to make output connections. I used 4 wire cable where 2 middle line is soldered to GND and 1 line is for Luma - solder to pin 9 of MC1377. In some cases it needs to pass through electrolythic capacitor of some 47-100 microFarads, what depends on input of atached device (TV card, TV, VCR). Other output is chroma of course, and it goes to pin 13 of MC1377. Chroma must pass through ceramic capacitor of about 47-100 nF (not visible on pic). I just use here one floating connector, so can use same S-Video cable with many Ataris.

Other Atari computers:
1040 STFM, Falcon (or even other revisions of STE, Mega STE) have very similar PAL encoder, but component placement is different. Of course, mod is same - removing delay line and coil. Connecting pin 8 with 1.2K res. You need to find that resistor on board, what is not hard, and connect to opposite pin than which is connected to pin 6 of MC1377.

PAL encoder in 1040STFM (unmodded) :
1040stfmpe.jpg


Mega STE's PAL encoder, modded :
mstesvid.jpg


Schematic of PAL encoder:
stencoder.png


Little more can find here, with some screenshots, videos: http://www.ppera.07x.net/atari/stvid.php
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Last edited by ppera on Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby techie_alison » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:44 pm

What about the NTSC crowd. This seems to affect them much more than it does us.

:D

Good work though, I've been waiting to see this actually documented by somebody for ages.
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby ppera » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:14 pm

I think that same mod. is good for NTSC too. Basical principle is same. But I can not test it, as have no NTSC machine.
It would be good, if someone brave on other side of Atlantic spend little time to do this mod. in his Atari and inform us...

I checked datasheet of MC1377. Only difference between PAL and NTSC is chroma carrier freq (what depends from used crystal in oscillator) and that by NTSC pin 20 is connected to GND. So, this mod. is good for NTSC too 99.9999999999999999 % :D

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby McCarthy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:43 pm

Hello there,
I'm new here and I stumbled upon this thread while I was looking for an RGB to Composite circuit for the Amiga2000. Since I'm possessing an Atari STFM it would be great to get this to work too. I was wondering if it's possible to get a composite color out instead of the S-Video?
Cheers, McCarthy

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby McCarthy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Hello there :)
now I have time to play around with my Atari STFM. I know the answer comes a little bit late ;)
I soldered a nice Atari -> Composite cable with the help above, but it doesn't work for me. I measured the cable with a multimeter and it seems to be ok, so no problems on that side. I thought maybe the monitor-out of my Atari is messed up, so I tested it with another Atari. But all I can get is a black screen on both machines. The only thing I get is a beep from the speakers whem I press a key on the keyboard.
I made a little drawing of my soldering :) the view is onto the monitor-out socket of the Atari.
Image

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby McCarthy » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:31 am

Thanks for the reply, but I think it's PIN2 I have to use, because now it works. I desoldered it from PIN3 and soldered it to PIN2 et voila it works. Before I did this I've read a few articles about ATARI pinouts, many of them said that Composite lays on PIN2. I'm a little bit confused why it works for me, because you said that your way works for you. http://pinouts.ru/Video/AtariStMonitor_pinout.shtml this for example says that on PIN2 lays Composite-Video, so does this http://pzat.meep.org/computing/st_connectors.html#monitor. But yours says that on PIN2 lays Composite-Sync http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/atari/1040STF/docs/connettore_monitor_st.htm. That's odd, mhhhh.
Cheers, McCarthy

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby McCarthy » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:06 pm

I have to thank you. No problem with the PIN issue, everyone does mistakes ;)
Cheers, McCarthy

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:50 am

Has anyone actually done this mod and tried it with modern TV's, LCDs, or monitors?

Since no one has actually come through with a final end-user product for color ST
to VGA/LCD products, this is starting to look like the only option for me to attempt
to get my STacy's video output to a replacement screen.

Thanks!
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:37 am

DarkLord wrote:Has anyone actually done this mod and tried it with modern TV's, LCDs, or monitors?
Since no one has actually come through with a final end-user product for color ST
to VGA/LCD products, this is starting to look like the only option for me to attempt
to get my STacy's video output to a replacement screen.
Thanks!


The mod listed above in this thread and using the composite video out (pin 2) will only work if the machine is fitted with a MC1377 chip. This chip encodes the "baseband" (or raw) red, green and blue video signals (RGB) along with the vertical and horizontal sync signals to produce the composite video signal (hence the name - composite - made up of distinct parts or elements). It is this signal that the modulator needs in order to produce a UHF TV signal that can be connected to the aerial input on the TV.
Normally you only get a MC1377 chip if the machine comes with a modulator :mrgreen: .
No modulator, no MC1377 chip, therefore no composite video signal :(. On these machines pin 2 is just a composite sync signal (a mix of the vertical and horizontal sync signals only).

If you have a machine without a modulator, the simplest solution is to use a display that can take analog RGB signals.

It is possible to build a colour encoder that does the same job as the MC1377 chip, but you do need to be able to produce your own circuit board (PCB) and design and build the circuit (which is beyond most people).
The next best thing is to find a piece of equipment that has such a circuit, carefully saw the circuit board so that you end up with only the colour encoder circuit, then wire it up. However finding a donor device / machine is easier said than done (unless you are happy to hack another Atari up.... :twisted: ). You also need to work out the connections - again easier said than done (but the data sheet for the chip helps :mrgreen: ).

MC1377 data sheet: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-dat ... 81104.html

Other colour encoders (there may be more than I list here, this is just a selection)
AD725 data sheet: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-f ... /AD725.pdf
AD722 data sheet: http://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~tm3/ad722.pdf (note that this chip is listed as obsolete)
Video-Standard Selection Circuit for the AD722 Using Low Cost Crystals: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-f ... AN-412.pdf
Example circuit, VGA to PAL and NTSC converter: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2t ... lntsc.html <<<well worth having a look at this
see also http://www.analog.com/en/audiovideo-pro ... index.html

MC13077 data sheet: http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/chi ... c13077.pdf or http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 13077.html
TDA8501 data sheet: http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download2/da ... _CNV_2.pdf
NTE879 data sheet: http://www.nteinc.com/specs/800to899/pdf/nte879.pdf
TEA2000 data sheet: http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... A2000.html
Example circuit: http://www.next.gr/inside-circuits/PAL- ... l5859.html

More info on video circuits and chips: http://www.epanorama.net/links/videochips.html

Note also that if you do not wish to modify your Atari like shown in the mod listed above in this thread, the signals needed for an external colour encoder are R, G and B video signals plus, H sync and V sync all of which are already available on the Atari monitor connector (see Example circuit, VGA to PAL and NTSC converter in this post just above).

Hopefully I have explained this well :mrgreen:
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:20 pm

Ah, kk - I missed that part about it having to have the modulator onboard in the first
place.

Bummer, another idea gone down the cesspool drain of wasted thoughts. :(
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:20 am

simbo wrote:just get a cheep jamma board from ebay {£13inc post}
and an lm1881 or a maxim sync seperator chip { i use free samples}
be done with it
ive been using one for the ste for 2 years now but it cost me £26

plug to svga use st or ste and it scales etc
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/video- ... 1a864e1453

not ebay but youll find the same thing there
gbs8220 works well once properly set up


Wait, isn't that the chinese board I bought a couple of months ago and never
could get it to work? I thought I'd brought it up in another thread?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17153

Thanks.
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:35 pm

Another member (Anemos) in another thread brought my attention to this RGB to PAL/NTSC Adapter
See http://www.amigamaniac.com/RGB_to_PAL_NTSC_adapter.html
This adaptor circuit generates both composite video and s-video outputs from a RGB (and V & H sync) inputs.
See also http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.ph ... 383.0.html
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:45 pm

DarkLord wrote:
simbo wrote:just get a cheep jamma board from ebay {£13inc post}
and an lm1881 or a maxim sync seperator chip { i use free samples}
be done with it
ive been using one for the ste for 2 years now but it cost me £26

plug to svga use st or ste and it scales etc
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/video- ... 1a864e1453

not ebay but youll find the same thing there
gbs8220 works well once properly set up


Wait, isn't that the chinese board I bought a couple of months ago and never
could get it to work? I thought I'd brought it up in another thread?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=17153

Thanks.

Yes this is the same board and apparently Anemos was able to use it. I am still in middle of tests myself. From What I understand the only problem left is the fact that the sync signal is too high for the board and I need to add a resistor on the sync input. Just need to find the right resistor and TIME to finish the test.

The advantage of this solution is that you can connect directly an LCD to the board while the "Amiga adapter" solution also requires to have an s-video to VGA converter

PS I have posted an inquiry on the Kjmann thread to find out what is the status of the atari to s-video project! Few weeks ago the prototypes where ready but still nothing available!!!
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/14 ... t-systems/
http://atari-sales.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=25
http://atari-sales.com/forums/showthrea ... 142#pid142

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:57 pm

Just out of curiosity, what lines commonly have to have resisters added?

(also, ranges for the resisters would be nice too!).

Thanks! :)
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:28 am

DarkLord wrote:Just out of curiosity, what lines commonly have to have resisters added?

(also, ranges for the resisters would be nice too!).

Thanks! :)

I do not think it is necessary to add resistors on the RGB because there are 3 potentiometer that allow to calibrate the colors.
However the sync signals probably needs a 510 Ohm resistor but I have not yet tried.

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DrCoolZic » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:57 pm

McCarthy wrote:Thanks for the reply, but I think it's PIN2 I have to use, because now it works. I desoldered it from PIN3 and soldered it to PIN2 et voila it works. Before I did this I've read a few articles about ATARI pinouts, many of them said that Composite lays on PIN2. I'm a little bit confused why it works for me, because you said that your way works for you. http://pinouts.ru/Video/AtariStMonitor_pinout.shtml this for example says that on PIN2 lays Composite-Video, so does this http://pzat.meep.org/computing/st_connectors.html#monitor. But yours says that on PIN2 lays Composite-Sync http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/atari/1040STF/docs/connettore_monitor_st.htm. That's odd, mhhhh.
Cheers, McCarthy

Everybody is a little bit right :?
What you need to know is that
- if an Atari ST has an RF modulator installed like your STFM then pin 2 carry a composite VIDEO
- But an Atari without RF modulator installed will have composite SYNC on pin 2 and this type of system does not allow to connect to TV directly :(

For more info look at my page http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... _connector

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:58 pm

simbo wrote:whats the script m8's??? where is it in the bin ... and no soy... :contract:
請給我們gbs8220的固件閃光关于版本3固件和纜繩的細節用戶的能更新您的產品 谢谢


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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby OSICA » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:13 pm

Hi i'm new here and in the atari's world.
I have a 1040 STF and I want to know if this is not compatible with a TFT screen(Car) with the S-video mod?
Thanks you!


Sorry for my bad english...

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby Nikolas » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:02 pm

Today i just did S-Video mod with audio out
Wery nice home made mod, thanks to all who know this to let me build my own mod for my self as atari st fan :)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/dscn1273f.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/dscn1274o.jpg
If you guys expirience hardware problems.
1. Always remove chips if possible before soldering.
2. Resolder your hardware, check cables too.
3. If problem continue THEN must be faulty software.

I got 2 Atari ST
Main is stfm, with blitter, with 4 meg of ram, with 16mhz cpu + s-video and audio input to videobox, vdi out
P.S.
My english may not be correct

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:28 pm

Nikolas wrote:Today i just did S-Video mod with audio out
Wery nice home made mod, thanks to all who know this to let me build my own mod for my self as atari st fan :)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/dscn1273f.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/dscn1274o.jpg


Hi Nikolas. Is this STe only, ST's with a modulator only, or all ST's?

Thanks!
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby Nikolas » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:47 pm

Thats is for all ST and STE's ST series that got TV modulator

ppera post 3 images each got description ste mega and sftm

i got stfm i remuve tv out modulator only stays in RGB MIXER chip that create croma and luminace thats 4 pin vodeo connector, as for audio drill a new hole that fits audio connector at ex-tv out, at new s-video connector.

But ppera stfm image dont got mod, what to do, it is just plain image.
Shematic help me where to connect and other then stfm images help me what to remove
If you guys expirience hardware problems.
1. Always remove chips if possible before soldering.
2. Resolder your hardware, check cables too.
3. If problem continue THEN must be faulty software.

I got 2 Atari ST
Main is stfm, with blitter, with 4 meg of ram, with 16mhz cpu + s-video and audio input to videobox, vdi out
P.S.
My english may not be correct

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:39 am

Sounds like a very good job.

Guess we're still waiting on a universal solution for ST's without the modulator
though...
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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby Nikolas » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 am

Yes there is, buil an encoder, thats simbo solution. Home made pcb it may help..

download/file.php?id=16395

With maybe litle mod you can get croma and luma out. Connecting h and v sync and rgb directly to shifter chip..?
Im not shure
If you guys expirience hardware problems.
1. Always remove chips if possible before soldering.
2. Resolder your hardware, check cables too.
3. If problem continue THEN must be faulty software.

I got 2 Atari ST
Main is stfm, with blitter, with 4 meg of ram, with 16mhz cpu + s-video and audio input to videobox, vdi out
P.S.
My english may not be correct

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby Nikolas » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:20 am

If you guys expirience hardware problems.
1. Always remove chips if possible before soldering.
2. Resolder your hardware, check cables too.
3. If problem continue THEN must be faulty software.

I got 2 Atari ST
Main is stfm, with blitter, with 4 meg of ram, with 16mhz cpu + s-video and audio input to videobox, vdi out
P.S.
My english may not be correct

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Re: S-Video mod for STE, ST ...

Postby Nikolas » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:56 am

I got my self external tv tuner.
http://www.avermedia.com/Product/Produc ... aspx?Id=13

Atari STfm with s-video out

s-video in to tv tuner
dvi out to my hires lcd monitor

This tuner makes sharp picture, nice colors, no vibrations, no problems with lcd image whats so ever with s-video input.

(atari rgb to tuner Vga in, vga out is useless with this tvtuner)
If you guys expirience hardware problems.
1. Always remove chips if possible before soldering.
2. Resolder your hardware, check cables too.
3. If problem continue THEN must be faulty software.

I got 2 Atari ST
Main is stfm, with blitter, with 4 meg of ram, with 16mhz cpu + s-video and audio input to videobox, vdi out
P.S.
My english may not be correct


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