Let's talk about dev tools.

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qwe
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Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby qwe » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:54 pm

Hi friends.
I started programming in assembly but i am a beginner, be patient.
I realized that programming on emulator is insane.
I think it's more efficient to use compiler vasm in Windows.
The problem comes when you have to try your code on emulator, it is very uncomfortable to include the TOS file in an image disc.
I need to autostart my code when launching the emulator.
Something like this from the command line: hatari myprg.tos
I tried several emulators but in none them I have been able to get the autostart.
The emulator that has the best debugger is Saint, I can't believe that you can not make the autostart with it.
Is there anyone who develops on windows? Which emulator do you use to test the code? Do you use scripts?
Thank you

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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby shoggoth » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:03 pm

Use the host file system capability of [insert name of emulator here].

(Afaik this is available on all emulators; just compile into the auto folder, reset emulator to start your binary)
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby Cyprian » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:07 pm

I use Notepad++. It has 68000 colored syntax and user-defined keyboard shortcuts. My own shortcuts are: VASM 68000, VASM 68030, Hatari (starts my program under Hatari), Steem Debugger (starts my program under Steem Boiler)
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Aranym / Steem / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

qwe
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby qwe » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:17 am

I think I ignore some feature of the Atari operating system.
Is the auto folder recognized only in the floppy drive or also in the hard drive?
In Steem I tried to create the auto folder in hard drive but nothing is automatically started.
What's wrong?
How can I mount a directory to simulate a floppy for have the auto folder working properly?
For all I know, only files with extension tos can be run in the auto folder, right?
May be that I wrong the compilation parameters in VASM.
What parameters do you use whith VASM?

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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:40 am

Autostart of some PRG in Steem is very easy to solve - without using floppy images. You need to set in Disk Menu, Hard Drive some directory of PC as Atari partition (C usually) - guess that already did it. Then at bottom left at When drive A is empty boot from - select there C (or what is your GEMDOS partit.) . And of course remove image from A. Need AUTO folder there in ROOT, of course. But extension must be PRG and not TOS - what is btw, by me bad idea of TOS authors, since real PRG (with GEM, AES) can not run form AUTO :D . Normally, TOS executes in row all PRGs there, in order as they are created/copied there, so not in alphabetic order.
Considering usage of emulator for development: absolutely (Joska will not agree :D ). Most useful and powerful is Steem Debugger.
I can not say anything about Vasm vs. some other assembler. I use DEVPAC3. Really great SW, and for larger sources just set Steem to max speed, then will compile it some 20x faster than real ST.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

qwe
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby qwe » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:05 am

Hi,
Thank to everybody.
The problem was the file with extension TOS, now files with PRG extensions have autostart working properly.
Just another question, which parameter do you use with VASM and VLINK?
I use:
vasmm68k_mot.exe -Ftos -no-opt -nosym -o mywork.prg mywork.s
and it seem doesn't need to use the linker.
What's your experience?
Thank you

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leonard
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby leonard » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:38 pm

Filesystem is a good way to go.

But I personaly prefer my own toolchain, generating directly a bootable MSA disk. I already release it with sample. Just run a .BAT and you get the complete MSA disk file containing a demo, ready to use. I don't use vasm but "as68", a 68k assembler by the famous Ziggy Stardust!
When MSA is ready, I just run SainT emulator, press F11 ( reset ) and that's it! ( SainT has an insternal debugger ).

tool chain here:

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56952
Leonard/OXYGENE.

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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:02 pm

qwe wrote:...
Is there anyone who develops on windows? Which emulator do you use to test the code? Do you use scripts?
Thank you

I think that I missed that you work under Windows. Had impression that using Linux. So, to answer on quoted:
I do all developments in Windows. With far best (I must accent it) tool: Steem Debugger. I don't use scripts. That Debugger and emulator is so comfortable in usage that really no need for scripts. What I use is pretty much primitive: 360K floppy images for every project - what just sets me in right directory. I boot from floppy image in 1-2 secs using acceleration of emulator. Then I can do fast whatever want - for instance copying files to empty floppy image and create AUTO folder, etc. In 20 secs there is autoboot - who needs scripts then ?
I don't want to underestimate anyone's work, but you really should try Steem Debugger - it's light years ahead - and new developments: SSE Steem Boiler - just another name, but there are some nice useful new features. It may need some time until you will be able to use it's full potential. I'm probably the one who used it most - I calculate some 5000-7000 hours :D
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Cyprian
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby Cyprian » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:02 pm

qwe wrote:The problem was the file with extension TOS, now files with PRG extensions have autostart working properly.


you can easily auto run also TOS programs. Just add "#Z 00 C:\YOUR_APP.TOS@" line to your DESKTOP.INF file.

My Notepad++ script also modify Steem Boiler INI file. It modifies "Drive_0_Path"
"Drive_0_Path=\Users\konador\Documents\_Atari\_Twardziel\YOUR_APP\"


qwe wrote:Just another question, which parameter do you use with VASM and VLINK?
I use:
vasmm68k_mot.exe -Ftos -no-opt -nosym -o mywork.prg mywork.s


I use following commandline for 68000 with Devpac compatibility:

Code: Select all

vasmm68k_mot.exe -DVASM_ATARI -nocase -maxerrors=20 -devpac -m68000 -no-opt -nosym -Ftos -o %~n1.TOS %1
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Aranym / Steem / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

AtariZoll
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:50 pm

Cyprian wrote:you can easily auto run also TOS programs. Just add "#Z 00 C:\YOUR_APP.TOS@" line to your DESKTOP.INF file.

Yeah, but that's not same AUTO run as running from AUTO folder - what happens before AES init and Desktop start. So, may be good, or may be just not good for certain purpose.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Cyprian
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby Cyprian » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:16 pm

true.
For normal TOS programs you can use that method.
In case of "AUTO" TOS programs you can just put Devpac directive ath the beginning of your assembler code - "OUTPUT .PRG". And now you can autostart it from AUTO.
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Aranym / Steem / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

qwe
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby qwe » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:05 pm

leonard wrote:Filesystem is a good way to go.

But I personaly prefer my own toolchain, generating directly a bootable MSA disk. I already release it with sample. Just run a .BAT and you get the complete MSA disk file containing a demo, ready to use. I don't use vasm but "as68", a 68k assembler by the famous Ziggy Stardust!
When MSA is ready, I just run SainT emulator, press F11 ( reset ) and that's it! ( SainT has an insternal debugger ).

tool chain here:

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56952


Hi Leonard,

Your toolchain is very interesting but I don't know anything about the kernel; what does it do? Only loading and depacking of code?
I saw several of your demo, is the kernel that is responsible for loading the modules when required? (What it was once called overlay).
If the kernel can be usefull as a technique to reduce the amount of memory used by a program, where can we find its documentation?

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leonard
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Re: Let's talk about dev tools.

Postby leonard » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:09 pm

qwe wrote:If the kernel can be usefull as a technique to reduce the amount of memory used by a program, where can we find its documentation?


sorry to answer so late... you could find usefull infos in the readme.txt in demosystem folder.
Leonard/OXYGENE.


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