The X68000 games porting experiment

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:47 pm

Interesting work and well done sofar. I'd suggest to leave borders and only render the 256 pixels width from the original X68000. That would mean less screen to update and thus more free CPU cycles.
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby EvilFranky » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:10 pm

Wouldn't the VIDEL also be able to do 256 pixels vertical too?

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby CiH » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:19 pm

rather impressive due to the 384x240 pixels size compared to the 256x256 on the X68000. :D


Keep the screen as it is! (Or an option to do so at least.)

I've got Falcon's that can give this the extra push :evil:
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Dal » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:44 pm

This is a very impressive concept! :D
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:12 am

EvilFranky wrote:Absolutely gobsmacked, incredible work.

So does the X68000 use a 16-bit screen in PacMania? Can't the VIDEL be programmed to match the exact X68000 resolution, meaning less has to be drawn to the screen?

Do you think the Falcons DSP will be able to emulate a Yamaha YM2151??

Keep up the great work!


Well, the advantage of using the true color mode is the pixel drawing speed. The disadvantage is that you have to move more data to draw on the screen. Also the Videl "steals" much of the system bandwidth in this mode (the bigger the screen the more it steals).

Unfortunately every Atari bitmap (palette) graphics mode is based on the bitplane format and therefore not compatible with the X68000 at all. Even using the 256 color format does not help since the X68000 has a background using 256 colors and additionally 16 different 15 color palettes for the sprites.

However, the sprite routine could be modified directly in the PacMania code so that the sprite drawing would be faster. For example: the the original X68000 code copies the animation data to the sprite display every time from where the Atari sprites are being converted and that's totally unnecessary. ;)

Yes, I think the DSP could emulate the sound but that needs some more investigation, though.

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:14 am

EvilFranky wrote:Wouldn't the VIDEL also be able to do 256 pixels vertical too?


Yes, exactly. I also experimented with this size but the monitor looks so... empty. ;)

Probably this should be selectable in another version.

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby EvilFranky » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:59 am

Anima wrote:
EvilFranky wrote:Absolutely gobsmacked, incredible work.

So does the X68000 use a 16-bit screen in PacMania? Can't the VIDEL be programmed to match the exact X68000 resolution, meaning less has to be drawn to the screen?

Do you think the Falcons DSP will be able to emulate a Yamaha YM2151??

Keep up the great work!


Well, the advantage of using the true color mode is the pixel drawing speed. The disadvantage is that you have to move more data to draw on the screen. Also the Videl "steals" much of the system bandwidth in this mode (the bigger the screen the more it steals).

Unfortunately every Atari bitmap (palette) graphics mode is based on the bitplane format and therefore not compatible with the X68000 at all. Even using the 256 color format does not help since the X68000 has a background using 256 colors and additionally 16 different 15 color palettes for the sprites.

However, the sprite routine could be modified directly in the PacMania code so that the sprite drawing would be faster. For example: the the original X68000 code copies the animation data to the sprite display every time from where the Atari sprites are being converted and that's totally unnecessary. ;)

Yes, I think the DSP could emulate the sound but that needs some more investigation, though.

Cheers
Sascha


Very interesting.

So how are the sprites drawn at the moment? I assume the original X68000 code is drawing on the hardware sprites? So how have you replaced this? A basic software routine just to show the proof of concept? No Atari Blitter use?

Oh, just to throw a title into your list...would love to see Final Fight converted :grin:

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:11 am

EvilFranky wrote:So how are the sprites drawn at the moment? I assume the original X68000 code is drawing on the hardware sprites? So how have you replaced this? A basic software routine just to show the proof of concept? No Atari Blitter use?


Each X68000 sprite is 16 x 16 pixels in size (so in fact the Pacman and ghosts are composed of four native sprites). Each native sprite itself consists of four 8 x 8 pixels "character" ordered top-left, bottom-left, top-right, bottom-right. Each pixel in a row of these four characters is coded in one long word so that eight nibbles define the color index of each pixel in the referenced sprite palette. And this is what the Atari sprite routine is currently decoding in real time.

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:51 pm

Can't you decode all possible data during loading time? Or will it generate too much data?
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:13 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:Can't you decode all possible data during loading time? Or will it generate too much data?


Indeed this would be very helpful but unfortunately at loading time you don't know which palette will be used for the sprites in the game later on. :(

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:27 am

Why the requirement to use the original data unaltered? Extract them first, convert them to the Atari format needed and only use that.

I would use the X68000 render code to write a prerenderer to create Atari data files beforehand. Otherwise you will never get the necessary speed (atleast I doubt it).
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:21 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:Why the requirement to use the original data unaltered? Extract them first, convert them to the Atari format needed and only use that.

I would use the X68000 render code to write a prerenderer to create Atari data files beforehand. Otherwise you will never get the necessary speed (atleast I doubt it).


Sure, but the first goal for me is to have a good hardware emulation first to see the results of other X68000 game ports. So of course PacMania should be optimized in the way you described to get it running smooth on a 16 MHz Falcon as well but this is very specific work for days to come. ;)

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:37 pm

Hello guys,

here is a PacMania VGA version for you to play around with.

Be warned: it's only a test and runs on 320x240 VGA only! It's slow and still no pills visible. You can use Hatari to check it out as well.

It's playable though (press trigger or left shift to play, use arrows or stick to move). Have fun to find all the invisible pills! ;)

Press "R" once if the playfield looks scrabled to rebuild it. Press "ESC" to quit the program.

Please let me know how this runs on accelerated Falcons (if it runs at all).

[Edit:]Hatari screenshot:

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Download: PacMania VGA Test

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:07 pm

The Proof-of-concept seems to be working nicely. I'm looking forward to the progress (and a a later Galaga 88 conversion) ;)
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby sh3-rg » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:19 pm

Interesting stuff, similar to what CJ has been doing for ST games to Jaguar. Maybe we should get him to take a look at the X68000, there are some nice arcade ports on it.
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby CiH » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:03 pm

Please let me know how this runs on accelerated Falcons (if it runs at all).


Okay, first reports are ......interesting. :mrgreen:

It looks like the CT60 is a bust, as I got a rather nice exception error when I tried it there.

My Centurbo 2 had mixed results. Pacmania X68000 didn't like to run under the default 'TOS 7' option, however, with 'TOS 4.xx' enabled from the set-up menu from booting (which still gives the 50 MHz CPU but no fastRAM, it was fine, and there was no slowdown at any point in the game either!

It looks like in its current form, accelerators without fastram and sticking to 68030 maximum are good, so Falcons with Nemesis/Phantom type overclockers should get some benefit with this one. 8)

Also it might be worthwhile noting that NVDI has no effect on this, so another win.
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:51 am

sh3-rg wrote:Interesting stuff, similar to what CJ has been doing for ST games to Jaguar. Maybe we should get him to take a look at the X68000, there are some nice arcade ports on it.


AFAIK the Jaguar has "only" 2 MB of RAM which is not much. IMHO this could be a problem.

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:00 am

CiH wrote:
Please let me know how this runs on accelerated Falcons (if it runs at all).


Okay, first reports are ......interesting. :mrgreen:

It looks like the CT60 is a bust, as I got a rather nice exception error when I tried it there.

My Centurbo 2 had mixed results. Pacmania X68000 didn't like to run under the default 'TOS 7' option, however, with 'TOS 4.xx' enabled from the set-up menu from booting (which still gives the 50 MHz CPU but no fastRAM, it was fine, and there was no slowdown at any point in the game either!

It looks like in its current form, accelerators without fastram and sticking to 68030 maximum are good, so Falcons with Nemesis/Phantom type overclockers should get some benefit with this one. 8)

Also it might be worthwhile noting that NVDI has no effect on this, so another win.


Thanks for the tests and nice to know that it runs at the full frame rate with a 50 MHz 68030 CPU.

It would be nice to get it running on the other accelerators as well but I think that I need to use more OS functions for a better compatibility. I.e. for now the display memory is simply put in the BSS segment so it's obvious that the game fails in fast RAM.

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby FedePede04 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:16 am

great stuff :D
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby christos » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:39 am

Anima wrote:
sh3-rg wrote:Interesting stuff, similar to what CJ has been doing for ST games to Jaguar. Maybe we should get him to take a look at the X68000, there are some nice arcade ports on it.


AFAIK the Jaguar has "only" 2 MB of RAM which is not much. IMHO this could be a problem.

Cheers
Sascha



Well, the x68000 has 1MB of RAM and you could use the chipset for stuff like sprites.
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby sh3-rg » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:28 pm

Anima wrote:
sh3-rg wrote:Interesting stuff, similar to what CJ has been doing for ST games to Jaguar. Maybe we should get him to take a look at the X68000, there are some nice arcade ports on it.


AFAIK the Jaguar has "only" 2 MB of RAM which is not much. IMHO this could be a problem.

Cheers
Sascha


+ 2, 4 or 6mb of ROM space without bank switching.
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby Anima » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:30 pm

Hello guys,

short update to the Galaga 88 port WIP:

It runs on the Falcon. 256 x 240 pixels screen. No text layer yet. Framerate on 16 MHz fluctuating between perfect and totally awkward. And the best: it's already playable, better than PacMania since no extra layer is needed for the gameplay! :)

Still many things to iron out.

Just take a look at these Hatari screenshots:

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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby sh3-rg » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:44 pm

great!
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby simonsunnyboy » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Awesome :) Don't forget to add Jagpad support later ^^
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Re: The X68000 games porting experiment

Postby CiH » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Very nice indeed! :D
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