mcoder wrote:Hi Arnaud !leonard wrote:Btw technically speaking Equinox's routs were faster almost at the same period (2 or 4bitplan routines)
Well, let's describe the chronology:
1. somewhere in 1989-1990: an Amiga group released the first 3D demo in 50 fps (I'm not sure which group, maybe SpreadPoint)
2. a few weeks later, I got this demo, and fell instantly in love with it
3. as usual, I tried to convert it to the ST, and I discover that the Amiga version uses blitter filling
4. I started then to write code to display a 3D cube on my ST, but the cube was quite small after a few weeks
5. I realized then that I needed new ideas, and thus I recruit Ziggy and Algernon, with the goal of writing a 3D game (thus no precomputation)
6. a few months later, we integrate Zarathustra, but due to a leaked 16 colors demo (I guess with the Brainstorm group, who were writing the official demo for Atari), he's kicked out of our group
7. several weeks later, we give a demo (my version) to Illegal, so he could show it at a party in England, and I got a greeting from The Lost Boys, who saw our preview.
8. meanwhile, Ziggy writes a sphere and ellipse routine, in a few days (!)
9. later, we heard that Equinox got the demo (Illegal was their good friend)
10. after that, there were rumors that TCB would release a 3D demo, so we started to code as crazies to release this screen (we worked 1 year and a half on it, and didn't want to lose the first posting place !)
11. the screen is released in the European Demos, and we can start to breathe, we were the first ! I guess the screen was pretty much a shock for both ST and Amiga users, due to the amount of work we spent.
12. although we concentrated on the 16 colors routines, nothing is released with that, and our game is cancelled.
13. a few months later, Equinox released their screen, so I rewrote my plane filler (unreleased version, but Mr Bee got all my sources and I hope he released some screens), and I quit the demo-scene. Ziggy released the fullscreen 3D demo timer.
14. TCB released their 3D demos several months later, but I don't remember the screen, it may not have been very impressive
15. Algernon worked more and more on the 3D, and coded Darkstone for Delphine, which is the only game I played from them !
So, you see that we had to urge to release this demo, since there were so many leaks.
As our main goal was to ultimately write a game, we didn't even think about delta-animation, neither logs instead of muls.
So, yes, if another group would have released a 3D screen, we would have easily improved the routines !leonard wrote:And last but nor least, to me the best 3d technical demo is the 3d screen by Rapido (Synergy). Very impressive, especially the last part (3d dots) which use a very, very fast real time 3d transform!
Yes, I saw that right now.
It's a nice demo, but a little bit long (and yes, their display routines are very fast).
It should have been impressive at that time, but now, it's quite outdated.
I was from the Future Minds group, I remember meeting you at the TB2 coding party. I'm happy to see the ST is not dead... That night you "crashed" my screen with your machine (labelled '2060ST' IIRC) thinking your shifter was messing up my syncscroller. The truth was that I used to add stabilization code at the beginning of the scan line, and not at the end as I should have done. Vincent pushed for my screen to end up in Disk 1, that was cool...
Your 3D was simply awesome, are you still seeing Vincent BTW?
The only thing a little bit unethical with the 3D screens at the time was the fact you guys were fiddling with 8 screens to buffer up processor time to handle the case where you had 3 faces visible on the screen for the cube, as this didn't "fit" in 1 single VBL otherwise. I myself used to work hard on 3D routines and decided to call Vincent one night to ask him how he did to display this whole darn cube on the screen!
Other great tricks were Illegal's synchronized-trace protection, S. was a really cool guy, feel free to forward him my email if you're still in touch with him (not sure if email is publicly visible on this forum).
Also, I heard something went horribly wrong with Pascal, is that true?
Another great but less known trick was used in Chaos' World of Commodore'92 on the Amiga with an adaptation of the giant bit-bend zooming scroller on the ST, where Chaos used EOR.L to simulate the blitter "vertically" and filling an arbitrary one-plane surface covering the whole screen in 50 fps, regardless of its complexity! (by using EOR.L vertically, over the 4th bitplane and 1st bitplane of the next 16 pixels, thus handling 32 pixels with 1 instruction iterating over the entire height of the screen to fill up any arbitrary area).
What a great time we all had.