Hatari on tablet device

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dma
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Hatari on tablet device

Postby dma » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:29 am

Is anyone using Hatari on a tablet device (any OS base)?
I see on Eero's page, that builds are done for Nokia 770, N800 & N810. Do those builds contain the latest changes?
Is anyone running latest builds on another tablet device?

Thanks in advance to anyone.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Greyfox™ » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:22 pm

I never seen it on any device, other than SToid on android and is a full priced app, even though its using an open source engine to run its emulation which I'm sure he's breaking the free licence agreement and charging people for it. Disgraceful !!

I think Hatari would be incredible on a tablet device / smart phone, imagine carrying your ST whenever you go in your bag or pocket, fingers crossed someone here has exceptional programming skills and decides to work on android OS version and make it happen, for starters he'd or she would have a legion of testers for it, I'd sign myself up straight away for it :angel:
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:40 pm

Charging is ok, the GPL does not prevent that BUT it requires that proper credits and copyrights are mentioned. At least the Google Ad page in the Play Store does not mention the Hatari base. And IMHO this is the disgraceful part of it. (And for me a reason, not to buy it)

Basically it is possible, as Hatari has been ported to the Ouya console under the name Atabee. According to my knowledge beside SToid there is no ST emulator for Android yet. For iOS i can't speak, i'm boycotting Apple.....
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:12 am

Hi everyone,

This is my first (long) post, but I've been a long time Atari fan and user.
I have a rough port of Hatari to Android devices that I've been using for a long time now (over a year). Mainly for my own nostalgia.

I'm not fully happy with it yet which is why I haven't released it yet (and I haven't really had much time to work on it).
I think I integrated the latest stable Hatari version a while ago when it was released (with the new floppy driver), but I'll have to double check later.

If people are interested, I can share the source code (as a zip for now, later could put on github or something like that so others can easily help out) and the unsigned apk if you want to have a play with it (I won't have much time to work on it any time soon though).

This must always be free for everyone and releases charging for open source software like SToid make me really unhappy (I was actually considering releasing this when SToid came out, but some things came up).

- Features
- on screen scalable atari keyboard
- two mouse button modes (on screen buttons, or osx trackpad like mode for double click)
- android configuration and file chooser (multi disk zipped support)
- arbitrary screen scaling, filtering on/off, lo/med/hi res
- sound
- st and ste modes

- Non supported
- falcon emulation
- hard disks

- Currently requires (should be fine on any android in the last few of years)
- gingerbread or later (tested on gingerbread and ics)
- from memory I think a minimum ~800mhz cpu if you want 100% speed

- Things I really wanted to do before releasing:
- better ui
- better configuration screens (eg file chooser for tos images)
- customizable on screen keys
- better mouse support
- midi
- fast forward
- save states
- more responsive on screen keyboard
- support for real keyboards and joysticks

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby simonsunnyboy » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:29 am

I'd be interested to betatest on my Acer A501 Iconia Tab. I think floppy only is ok for portable uses. Users want to play games and watch demos, not use GEM apps or do serious work while underway. The joystick emulation must be precise and well working however...
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Cyprian » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:06 pm

squall wrote:If people are interested, I can share the source code (as a zip for now, later could put on github or something like that so others can easily help out) and the unsigned apk if you want to have a play with it (I won't have much time to work on it any time soon though).

This must always be free for everyone and releases charging for open source software like SToid make me really unhappy (I was actually considering releasing this when SToid came out, but some things came up).


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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby dma » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:32 pm

Wow, this would be amazing.

But i would love it with disk save, to be able to compose with maxYMiser on the go.
Maybe a more simple way to "save" (implementation wise, but not user wise) would be savestates "loaded from" and "reloaded in" another Hatari port (on the PC).

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:10 am

Ok, I've uploaded the source onto github and here's a link to the unsigned APK if you don't want to compile it yourself.
Just note that I haven't worked on this for a while now, so a few of the ui are just placeholder (and does nothing).

Treat this like a private beta as I haven't gone through and setup all the licensing docs and I still need to ask people for permission for some of the icons that I've used (I've put a link in the credit.txt for now).

Source: https://github.com/squalldc/hataroid
APK: It's now available on the play store

When I get some time, I'll like to finish off the ui, any bugs and features that you guys want (like save states) and then I'll have a look at purchasing a google publisher account so I can put it on the play store.

Feel free to post any requests and bugs you find.
Last edited by squall on Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Greyfox™ » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:08 am

My prays have been anwsered :D , would be more than happy to provide my services to helping this happen and topple SToid off its throne , I could help with the UI gfx etc..so if people are up for the challenge , let's do this :)

I knew 2014 was gonna be a good start for things :cheers:
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Eero Tamminen » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:10 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:Charging is ok, the GPL does not prevent that BUT it requires that proper credits and copyrights are mentioned. At least the Google Ad page in the Play Store does not mention the Hatari base. And IMHO this is the disgraceful part of it. (And for me a reason, not to buy it)


The more important thing that GPL requires, is publishing the used GPL sources and all modifications to them under the same (or compatible) license [1]. If you've bought something based on Hatari sources, you have legal right to get the modified sources for it, further modify, build and distribute & sell them yourself. As result, price for something under GPL, shouldn't keep high very long...

[1] binaries need to be accompanied with (modified) sources or offer to provide the (modified) sources for several years after the publishing. After you request the sources, they need to be delivered within reasonable time (I think that's weeks, maybe a month). The nice twist in older version (v2) of GPL is that if somebody fails to comply with the licensing terms, it's not enough to get into compliance afterwards, you need to get acceptance for that from _every_ rights holder for the GPL sources, to be able to distribute binaries based on them again.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby lp » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:54 pm

squall wrote:When I get some time, I'll like to finish off the ui, any bugs and features that you guys want (like save states) and then I'll have a look at purchasing a google publisher account so I can put it on the play store.


If you put it up on the play store that would probably end the other guys sales right quick I would think. :lol:

This would be nice for my iDevice but it ain't gonna happen via Apple as they seem dead set against any sort of app that is an emulator. :( I won't jail-breaking my iDevice for a single app. If one was to get an android device, just for the express purpose of a portable ST, what do people recommend?

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Eero Tamminen » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:01 pm

dma wrote:Is anyone using Hatari on a tablet device (any OS base)?
I see on Eero's page, that builds are done for Nokia 770, N800 & N810. Do those builds contain the latest changes?


Those old ARM devices were not that fast. The builds were for older Hatari versions of that time. Newer Hatari versions have more accurate emulation which means that they're also slower, i.e. would work even worse on those old devices.

As to how usable Atari programs inside Hatari are on touch screen devices... IMHO not that much:

  • Above listed devices had keyboard and you do need some kind of keyboard to input space key or numbers, to start many of the games (even if the game play itself were done with joystick). On screen keyboard is good enough for that, but Hatari doesn't support something like that.
  • And the quality of on-screen joysticks for use on old-school games... You can forget anything needing fast action, the on-screen joysticks are really bad.
  • For anything needing mouse input you really need a real mouse. Finger is impossible to use and even with pen, it's really hard. You won't enjoy it.

-> I.e. how you interact with the games, and their difficulty level, needs to be specifically designed for touchscreen, for them to be enjoyable.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby Greyfox™ » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:18 pm

Anymore developments on this? For the foreseeable future, Atari ST emulation is so serverly wanted on android and this could be the ticket, so I really hope this isn't abandoned .. We need a rocking ST emu for on the go.. :angel:
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby EvilFranky » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:04 pm

lp wrote:
squall wrote:When I get some time, I'll like to finish off the ui, any bugs and features that you guys want (like save states) and then I'll have a look at purchasing a google publisher account so I can put it on the play store.


If you put it up on the play store that would probably end the other guys sales right quick I would think. :lol:

This would be nice for my iDevice but it ain't gonna happen via Apple as they seem dead set against any sort of app that is an emulator. :( I won't jail-breaking my iDevice for a single app. If one was to get an android device, just for the express purpose of a portable ST, what do people recommend?


The 2013 model of the Nexus 7 tablet.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby catmando » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:10 pm

Wow, this is so much better than STOID, I would've (and still will) pay for this if you make it available on Google Play. Unlike STOID you really feel that it has been put together by someone that knows the ST. Please keep up the developement, it's really, really good.

Is there a setting that will stop me getting a 'double bus error' when loading Lotus 3 cracked by Cynix? I'm running it on an Archos Gamepad tablet.

Cheers and thanks for making the APK available
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby catmando » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:42 pm

Improvements that I'd like to see:

1. Add STX file support
2. I found the movement of the mouse worked really well, but clicking the mouse buttons seemed a bit hit and miss and doesn't always work (playing Lemmings)
3. Maybe some different joypad designs as it was hard to perform diagonal movements (playing Xenon 2)
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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:49 am

Yeah I'm still working on this in my spare time.

I've fixed a lot of issues that I wasn't comfortable with releasing to the general public.
I just need to add a help screen with links to source and credits before I put it on the play store (also need to contact Unseen_Menace to ask him for permission to use his keyboard picture).
Was thinking of doing an atari demo like screen with scroller for the help screen, but might just put up a boring android window for now.

There's still a lot I want to do, but I can add those features after the initial release.
It will always be free btw.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:52 am

Also, forgot to mention, does lotus 3 get the double bus error on hatari on windows/osx?
If not, I'll have a look at it if you can pm the link to the cynix version.

It's unlikely that hatari will add stx support since the dll is closed source.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:16 am

Ok, I've purchased a google publisher account and put up an initial version on the play store so it's easier for people to try out.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby MeowZedong » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:34 pm

Hi,

I registered specifically to say thank you for releasing this app in preliminary form. Great work! :!: However, I can't get it to work on my Nexus 7 2013 (running Android 4.4.2, if that matters). Hataroid is unable to find tos.img/tos_ste.img in the hataroid directory I created. Is there anything that can be done about it? I also noticed that the app does not request any permissions at all during installation, which seems wrong.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby kevcal; » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Just installed Hataroid on my S3 - great work squall! (STe support on Android at last!)
Have bought Stoid and found it lacking, although the user interface is more polished and it grates to pay for a freeware emulator port when the developer obviously doesn't care about keeping it updated.
Hataroid on the other hand looks like it'll be further developed :) - pitty the basic Hatari UI is so bad, improvements in that area will make this so much better..

Only things (apart from UI improvements) - and these may already be in there but I haven't found yet -would be a portrait mode, external joystick support (bluetooth mouse & keyboard?),border removal support, maybe some onscreen filtering.
Whatever happens it's a great start :)
Last edited by kevcal; on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby catmando » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:04 pm

kevcal; wrote:Just installed Hataroid on my S3 - great work squall! (STe support on Android at last!)
Have bought Stoid and found it lacking, although the user interface is more polished and it grates to pay for a freeware emulator port when the developer obviously doesn't care about keeping it updated.
Hataroid on the other hand looks like it'll be firther developed :) - pitty the basic Hatari UI is so bad, improvements in that area will make this so much better..

Only things (apart from UI improvements) - and these may already be in there but I haven't found yet -would be a portrait mode, external joystick support (bluetooth mouse & keyboard?),border removal support, maybe some onscreen filtering.
Whatever happens it's a great start :)
What did you think was wrong with the UI?

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby squall » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:58 pm

MeowZedong - try the latest version. Looks like Android 4.4 onwards now requires permissions to read from external storage (i'm still running 2.3.3).

kevcal - yeah, I want to add external joystick and keyboard support at some stage, but want to get the main stuff working nicely first (since I don't have any bluetooth keyboard or joysticks myself).
- you can disable borders in display options (show borders) (although looks like you need to restart the emu for it to properly take effect (i'll fix that soon)
- there's only bilinear filtering at the moment, but I could add others at some stage, but they would really be fore more powerful devices

catmando - I forgot to mention last time, try changing the joystick size and see if that helps the diagonals. I'm going to work on a second on screen joystick style soon.


As for the ui,
- for functionality, I really need feedback from users on what they want to see (even mockups would be good), it currently does what I need, but might not be for everyone
- visually, I really need an artist/designer to help out with that since my coder art is never going to cut it :P

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby MeowZedong » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:27 am

squall wrote:MeowZedong - try the latest version. Looks like Android 4.4 onwards now requires permissions to read from external storage (i'm still running 2.3.3).

Thanks! :D Can you upload the new binary for me, please?

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Re: Hatari on tablet device

Postby MeowZedong » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:01 pm

squall wrote:Ok, I've purchased a google publisher account and put up an initial version on the play store so it's easier for people to try out.

Oh, I totally missed that post. It's working perfectly now!

One small bug: When setting the sampling rate to an unsupported format, the app will immediately force close on each subsequent start. I had to remove and reinstall the app after that.


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