TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

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Decky
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TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby Decky » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:24 pm

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone knows a solution to my issue. I have created the post on Facebook.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/133161394 ... 1653194214
Or as pasted below.

I know this group is for Atari ST and STe users. However I have a question about and Atari ST application. It is Time works 2. I used it for years and it seen me through University 1995. Recently I downloaded Rastari and was trying to install programs I used to use. As TimeWorks 2 was my favourite DTP package I tried to instl. It did install OK, however when I launched it there was an error. Does anyone know if there is a fix or way round it?
Atari STe 4Mb with TOS 1.62 / 2.06 Switchable, thanks to Techie Alison. UltraSatan, CosmosEx, Gotek

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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby joska » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:06 pm

I don't really know Rastari, but it looks to me as it comes with EmuTOS only. While EmuTOS is probably the best "TOS" around, it's not 100% compatible with old applications that only works with certain TOS-versions. You will probably have to download TOS 1.04 (or even 1.02) and use that instead of EmuTOS.
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby ThorstenOtto » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:32 pm

That mostly applies to demos/games, but rarely to GEM programs. unless they are doing something really weird. But Timeworks is not on the incompatibility list.

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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby Decky » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:04 pm

I am using TOS 4.92 because it looks so cool.
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby joska » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:16 pm

ThorstenOtto wrote:That mostly applies to demos/games, but rarely to GEM programs. unless they are doing something really weird.


Timeworks is only partly a GEMDOS program. And TOS incompatibility with "serious" software was quite common back then, I remember experiencing a lot of this just by upgrading from a TOS 1.02 ST to an STE. Not to mention the trouble I had with the MSTE. That said, I never used Timeworks 2, only Timeworks.

I just tried Timeworks 2 on Hatari.

ST 4Mb/mono.
TOS 1.02: Works.
TOS 1.04: Works.
TOS 2.06: Does not work, as GDOS 1.1 (which the Timeworks installer installs on your bootdisk) crashes with TOS 2.
EmuTOS: Does not work. GDOS 1.1 does not crash, but apparently does not work either because Timeworks complains about lack of fonts.

It might work with a newer GDOS, like NVDI. But I don't have a working GDOS/NVDI setup on my PC. But it's safe to say that a standard Timeworks 2 installation only works with TOS 1.x.

Falcon:
TOS 4.04: GDOS does not work here either. If I boot without it and attempts to start Timeworks it crashes.

Decky wrote:I am using TOS 4.92 because it looks so cool.


Using TOS 4.92 for anything at all sounds like a bad idea ;) Try one of the working configurations above. I even tested it briefly with extended resolutions (1024x768) and it appeared to work.

Edit: It does work with TOS 2.06 and NVDI 2.51 as GDOS. That NVDI version crashes with EmuTOS.
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby Decky » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:30 am

Thanks everyone for your input and suggestions and Joska, I appreciate your testing of Timeworks 2 in the various configurations.

I don't think I have NVDI 2.51 but I will stick with TOS 2.06

Thank you
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby joska » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:45 am

Decky wrote:I don't think I have NVDI 2.51 but I will stick with TOS 2.06


In that case you will have to find a GDOS that works with 2.06, the one that Timeworks installs does not.

NVDI 2.51 can be found here: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23806
This version comes without fonts and printer drivers, so you will have to copy the fonts and drivers over from the Timeworks2 GEMSYS folder to the NVDI GEMSYS folder (usually C:\GEMSYS). You will also have to update ASSIGN.SYS with font and printer driver definitions from the Timeworks setup. Please note that the Timeworks installer will overwrite your c:\assign.sys, so if you install NVDI first make sure to make a backup of this file.

This is my favourite NVDI for 68000 machines. It's very fast, use little memory and has a GDOS replacement. Bitmap fonts only, like the original GDOS. I don't know how Timeworks 2 handles the outline fonts in later GDOS versions like SpeedoGDOS and NVDI 4/5. Many programs had problems with this, but it's worth testing.

SpeedoGDOS 5.7: https://atariage.com/forums/application ... ?id=530247
NVDI 5: http://www.s212939144.websitehome.co.uk ... /nvdi5.zip

If you just want to get started then use TOS 1.04 and simply run the Timeworks installer. The only practical difference between 1.04 and 2.06 is the desktop.
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby anodyne » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:05 am

Hi folks,
Just looking in here because this thread was mentioned on the EmuTOS mailing list. I found a legal copy of Timeworks 2 that I had been given many years ago by another user. I installed it using Hatari 2.2.1 (4MB MegaSTe emulation, mono monitor) and TOS 2.06 on a Linux system. It initialised OK with TOS 2.06, but not with the current EmuTOS (crash during initialisation). I'll look into it some more, but it will take a while, since the crash is because some user area is zero, and figuring out what it should be and why it isn't is not going to be trivial.

Roger Burrows

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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby SteveBagley » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:54 am

anodyne wrote:Hi folks,
Just looking in here because this thread was mentioned on the EmuTOS mailing list. I found a legal copy of Timeworks 2 that I had been given many years ago by another user. I installed it using Hatari 2.2.1 (4MB MegaSTe emulation, mono monitor) and TOS 2.06 on a Linux system. It initialised OK with TOS 2.06, but not with the current EmuTOS (crash during initialisation). I'll look into it some more, but it will take a while, since the crash is because some user area is zero, and figuring out what it should be and why it isn't is not going to be trivial.


A couple of distant memories that might help…

Many many years ago, I played around with getting Timeworks 2 to run under MagiC (Magic 2, so would have been around 1996). I seem to remember finding that there was a bug with how Timeworks 2 called appl_init() and stored the application ID. Specifically, the ID was always stored as zero, which was one of the problems that stopped it running under MagiC.

Secondly, Atari World magazine released a version of Timeworks which supported SpeedoGDOS (Timeworks 2b04), this not only worked better under MagiC than v2.01, but also still had the PureC debut symbols present which made debugging much easier.

Steve

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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby joska » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:07 am

The Atari World coverdisks can be found here: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 84#p130234
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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby anodyne » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:44 pm

This was a bug in EmuTOS. It's now fixed in the online repository; you can download the latest snapshot binaries from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/emutos ... snapshots/.

And thanks to Decky for the original problem report & to Thorsten Otto for posting it on the EmuTOS mailing list!

A reminder to everyone: if you think there's a problem with EmuTOS, that fastest way to get it resolved is to report it on the EmuTOS mailing list. You can subscribe at: https://sourceforge.net/projects/emutos ... utos-devel

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Re: TimeWorks 2 Publisher on Hatari

Postby joska » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:43 am

joska wrote:
Decky wrote:I don't think I have NVDI 2.51 but I will stick with TOS 2.06


In that case you will have to find a GDOS that works with 2.06, the one that Timeworks installs does not.


After seeing Roger's findings on the EmuTOS list I decided to test this again, as he said that GDOS 1.1 *does* work with TOS 2.06. It still crashed on Hatari, but after restarting Hatari itself instead of just resetting it GDOS worked. So a standard Timeworks 2 install should work perfectly fine on 2.06 as well.
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