Pasti images that should, but don't work

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:22 pm

npomarede wrote:As you said, this will make some games work (that don't work today with pasti) and other will not work.
On the other end, if I randomize, it will be the opposite, so there's no 100% solution at this time :)


The images that don't work for reasons related to the leading bytes randomization are bad. A correct image works with the current DLL Pasti. No DLL update is needed for these cases. An updated DLL is required for other issues present in other images, as I described in my post.

BTW, what would be some games that won't work under Hatari because I don't randomize ?


War Heli is one case. It requires the randomization. Note that if you don't randomize it might seem that it works, but it doesn't (the game starts, but crashes after you play for a few seconds). I am certain there are several more cases that I don't remember right now.

Combo Racer is a special case. There is no 100% solution for this version, but (at least as it seems), the problem is on the game itself. With the only image we have so far, if you don't randomize it works always. If you do, sometimes (or even always) might fail. But this is just by chance. A different image, even made from the very same physical disk, might be recorded in such a way that the situation could be the opposite (without randomize would never work).

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby npomarede » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:44 pm

BTW, speaking of not imaged game, you might have a look at Damocles for your next release, it uses a special format with only track data and no sector, and also random bytes when reading the track (or maybe that was variable length byte written at a different speed, I don't really remember). But from what I saw, Pasti doesn't handle these 2 protections scheme at the track level (whereas they are supported at the sector level)

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:06 am

npomarede wrote:BTW, speaking of not imaged game, you might have a look at Damocles for your next release ...


IIRC, Damocles has weak bits outside the sector data. But it works anyway, because it is never checked, don't know/remember if it's a mastering error or an issue with the software. At least that's as I remember.

In the worst case, that would put it in the same category as Vroom and Power Drift.

Btw, anybody has a flux low level dump of Damocles?

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Maartau » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:45 am

ijor wrote:I never uploaded 0.2i to my site, but should be somewhere here at the forum.


Link to Pasti 0.2i...

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=19904&p=261629#p261638
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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:04 am

As I remember, there was some kind of Pasti image verification project initiated many years ago, but it never became alive. Yes. such things just lack people willing to spend some time and effort (I know how it is, believe me - look this: http://forum.8bitchip.info/general-chat/rss-feeds/ ) .
Sadly, Atarimania is not linked from Pasti homepage, despite that it is main source in last 7-8 years for Pasti images. Several problems about images hosted there were reported, and many is fixed already. That's close to idea described above. And may be improved, I guess.
Forums are nice thing, but they aren't efficient for this. Maybe guys at Atarimania can imagine something to move things faster, involve more people.
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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:52 pm

A new version (0.2j) of the DLL has been released:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=30517

Also a correct version of Jupiter's Master Drive is now at Atarimania. The new DLL is not required to run this title. It runs fine in older versions as well.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:59 am

About Albedo, I notice a different behaviour in Steem between SCP and STX, at least the images I have.
With the STX version, loading of the first tracks is slower, it seems it does a RESTORE between each track.

In Jupiter's Masterdrive, the tracks 4-2 are read twice on the STX image, once on the SCP image.
[edit: of course, right after posting this it did it only once on the STX image too]
In both cases, could be some trouble in SCP emu.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby DrCoolZic » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:39 pm

ijor wrote:This is an update on all the titles that have some kind of problem with Pasti. In this post I am just giving information after checking the cause of the problem. I intend to fix all of them, hopefully shortly.


Obviously this is great but I (I guess I should say we) would appreciate if you let us know about changes in the STX format. There are now several applications (Hatari, HxC, Aufit, ...) that rely on knowledge of the STX format.

Actually it would be nice if you could spend some time to validate my document that describe Pasti files. This document is based on reverse engineering and probably contains errors and missing information. If you can provide correction / addition this would be wonderful.
If you need I can provide the documentation in MS Word or Adobe PDF format.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:20 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Obviously this is great but I (I guess I should say we) would appreciate if you let us know about changes in the STX format.


No change was introduced in the STX format so far. That would be the next step for supporting weak bits outside sector data (Vroom and Power Drift). No other image, that I've seen, requires any change or enhancement in the STX format.

I will post a description and document the changes once they would be implemented.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby DrCoolZic » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:31 pm

Thanks and any feedback on http://info-coach.fr/atari/documents/_m ... tation.pdf is welcome ;)

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:20 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:About Albedo, I notice a different behaviour in Steem between SCP and STX, at least the images I have.
With the STX version, loading of the first tracks is slower, it seems it does a RESTORE between each track.

In Jupiter's Masterdrive, the tracks 4-2 are read twice on the STX image, once on the SCP image.
[edit: of course, right after posting this it did it only once on the STX image too]
In both cases, could be some trouble in SCP emu.


Please specify which image exactly are you using in each case.

Specifically, which STX image for Albedo?
And which SCP image for Jupiter's Masterdrive (I see there are at least 3)?

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Brume » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:04 am

Is there different STX images of Albedo? I mean we can generate a STX version with Aufit using SCP or RAW versions. Does it produce a wrong version? If so, does it mean you redumped the original disk?

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Marakatti » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:48 am

AtariZoll wrote:Forums are nice thing, but they aren't efficient for this. Maybe guys at Atarimania can imagine something to move things faster, involve more people.

Sure we would like to get things move faster. It's only two active guys on AM ST at the moment (me and Champions_2002) so as you can imagine with 5514 games (3061 dumps), 1137 utils (243 dumps) and 1796 demos (1772 dumps) records our pace versus people's expectations are quite far from each other :D

As always anyone who wants to join us is welcome :) We had many members in the past who got bored after half a year when they realised how time consuming it is to build a database. Still their support was very valuable but we need people who are highly motivated and believe in this thing.

So if anyone wants to help us please step forward and please ask. We really need people who are able to understand the technical side of disk formats. And also people to expand the PD-database, and demos, and utils... But this hobby really needs a lot of time and patience. You won't have time to play games on your ST anymore ;)
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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:41 pm

Brume wrote:Is there different STX images of Albedo? I mean we can generate a STX version with Aufit using SCP or RAW versions. Does it produce a wrong version? If so, does it mean you redumped the original disk?


Well, there are a few different STX images of Albedo. Yes, there seems to be a problem with the Aufit generated image in this case.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Brume » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:47 pm

ijor wrote:Well, there are a few different STX images of Albedo. Yes, there seems to be a problem with the Aufit generated image in this case.

Source, please :)
Thanks in advance

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:53 pm

Brume wrote:Source, please :)


The Aufit conversion is the one you posted, I think. If you want the others I have, I can PM to you.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby Brume » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:56 pm

Yes, I'd like very much to take a look at the other versions.
Where are they come from?
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:49 pm

Would be great to have KF and STX.
Brume can you take care of collecting/publishing images?

I have looked at the image I have (probably from you). Under Aufit I do not see problem however when I test the ctr image with CTA (from SPS) the program complains. As far as I know the error indicate modified FD (report 80 bad tracks with 79 modified). Therefore it would be nice to have another source. I believe Ijor has KF board. CTA is therefore unable to recognize any track, not even the first one :(

Albedo is strange
- First track 0 has 2 512 bytes sector and 4 1024 bytes sector and a strange end of track with two burst of C2 (if tested requires read track info). Also the clock period goes from 2000 to 1950 (about 2.5%) not sure if this is on purpose and if tested?
- Track 1 to 80 are data track only sync and data but organized apparently in sectors (not atari sector). First sync is long sync of C2 followed by A1 and after one C2 and 3 A1 ...

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby ijor » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:30 pm

There are multiple issues with Albedo.

DLL versions before 0.2j usually can't run Albedo at all. That was an issue of the DLL.

Version 0.2j runs Albedo, but some images load slower than they should. That's an issue of the images, including it seems, Autfit conversion.

Jean, I will comment the details on PM.

Brume, will send you the images later.

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:45 pm

Marakatti wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:Forums are nice thing, but they aren't efficient for this. Maybe guys at Atarimania can imagine something to move things faster, involve more people.

Sure we would like to get things move faster. It's only two active guys on AM ST at the moment (me and Champions_2002) so as you can imagine with 5514 games (3061 dumps), 1137 utils (243 dumps) and 1796 demos (1772 dumps) records our pace versus people's expectations are quite far from each other :D
As always anyone who wants to join us is welcome :) We had many members in the past who got bored after half a year when they realised how time consuming it is to build a database. Still their support was very valuable but we need people who are highly motivated and believe in this thing.
So if anyone wants to help us please step forward and please ask. We really need people who are able to understand the technical side of disk formats. And also people to expand the PD-database, and demos, and utils... But this hobby really needs a lot of time and patience. You won't have time to play games on your ST anymore ;)


Yes, I understand all it, mostly. I'm one who has no time to play games, even if dealing with games :mrgreen:
Building database is indeed very time consuming. I had in mind establishing of some new database, what will include more details - so for instance details about used copy protections (there is people with some bases about that), then about limitations (TOS versions and like) - later is partially present at AM, but would be better as some dedicated field. And of course all those new images like Kryoflux, SCP, IPF ...
If space is not problem, maybe just to add link at page about some SW release named "more details", or like.
English language is like bad boss on workplace: it expecting from you to strictly follow all, numerous rules, but self bending rules as much likes :mrgreen:

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Re: Pasti images that should, but don't work

Postby DrCoolZic » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:29 pm

If you have images that run slow. Try the attached version based on feedback from Ijor.
It includes the sync position in track information and this might help.

Do not remember about latest release of Aufit. But on my version there is a flag called WriteSync that you can check in the Export tab. It will cause Aufit to write Sync information and this may help in some cases. By default the flag is off. I will change this to on in next releases.
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