WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

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PaulB
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby PaulB » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:01 am

Note that I edited the copyright message yesterday after I found out lol. :angel:

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:14 am

Greenious wrote:Some of my customers have fancy office copiers you just feed a stack of paper and automagically, a while later, a pdf appears with all the scanned papers...

That's exactly, what i use :D , such a fancy copier, and it's really "automagically". 50 pages per minute in batch-mode is so fast and even the Profibuch won't take very long. Main work is the post-processing like cutting the pictures, quality improvement and OCR.
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby ppera » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:59 am

Well, let see this scenery:

I buy Profibuch (1991 edition) from Amazon.de via my relative in Germany - so he get it on his address in Germany. What would cost to send it to UK (to Greenious) so he can scan it ? What would cost to send it finally to me in Hungary ?

Other solution would be that I buy some scanner (maybe price would be less than cost of 2 shipping ?? )

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:05 am

Why not send it to me, it's cheaper. And i only have the 1989 edition.
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Mug UK » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:56 am

I'm in the UK but Greenious is (I think) in Sweden? Which makes Keili a virtual next-door neighbour by comparison :)
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:31 pm

Exactly my thoughts and we're already in contact about the details :D .
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:42 am

Profibuch, 10. edition from 1991, is on it's way to me. I will start next week with scanning. It may take up to 3 weeks, because i have 2 workshops of 2 days each soon.
An interesting detail is, that the book is sold by someone, who works for ROM Logicware, the Papyrus-creators.
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby PaulB » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:13 am

Now we just need a fantastic German man to translate the book to English -> keili <-

Only joking. That would be way to much work for anybody.
Last edited by PaulB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:27 am

Even OCR is too much work for one person :wink: , the book has nearly 1500 pages. Any vonlunteers, who can help :D ? I will create packages with 100-200 pages, depends, how much helpers i can find.
Tranlation would be a really hard job. The book is full of german wordplays, because they tried to present a difficult material in an interesting way. But when everything else is scanned, collected and catalogued :wink: , in about 100 years...
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby ppera » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am

Some splitting of task(s) (OCR too) is welcome. Some people knows better some areas, so will easier translate some book parts...

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby beastie » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:58 am

ppera wrote:Some splitting of task(s) (OCR too) is welcome. Some people knows better some areas, so will easier translate some book parts...


I can help with the OCR part. For a good start you can send me 100 pages, then... maybe another batch and so on. But I can't help with translation.

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby CopperCAT » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:02 pm

keili wrote:Tranlation would be a really hard job. The book is full of german wordplays, because they tried to present a difficult material in an interesting way. But when everything else is scanned, collected and catalogued :wink: , in about 100 years...


Ah, german is not my native language so I fear I won't be of much help there :(
Maybe if the book were to be put online (in HTML or so) I can help linking and indexing?

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:25 pm

beastie wrote:I can help with the OCR part. For a good start you can send me 100 pages, then... maybe another batch and so on. But I can't help with translation.

Thanks for your help :D . The first batches will be ready at the end of next week.

CopperCAT wrote:Maybe if the book were to be put online (in HTML or so) I can help linking and indexing?

Your help is welcome :D . But that will be the third step after scanning and OCR, time to prepare yourself for the battle :wink: .
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Mug UK » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:26 pm

OCRing is not a problem. As mentioned before, just upload the pages in batches and I can add them to Adobe 8 a bit at a time. The initial OCR phase might take a bit of time but adding different parts one by one to a final PDF file (or maybe each chapter in PDF files) will be easy enough to do.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:28 pm

Mug, is Acrobat really good enough for this job? Can test it at work, were i have. Else I would take Abby Finereader for this.
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Mug UK » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:15 pm

keili wrote:Mug, is Acrobat really good enough for this job? Can test it at work, were i have. Else I would take Abby Finereader for this.


I use it at home and at work (Adobe Standard v8) and it seems to work fine for me. Not used an OCR package in a while so couldn't say whether Abby Finereader is better or not.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby beastie » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:04 am

I think that FineReader is the best one available for now - but of course it's only my personal opinion. I've worked with FineReader a lot, once upon a time,
when we were doing educational project - we had to scan a lot of books (it was some years ago, at school) - and the results were great. The biggest problem was that all the books were written in Polish - we've tested some different OCRs and FineReader ate them all. Now, anytime I've to do something with the OCR I always look for the opportunity to use FineReader. I think it will be good also for German - although, the Polish and German are totally different (so much different, that in Polish language a German guy is called "Niemiec", which means exactly a person, which is unable to speak in any language - you can translate it to "speechless" or "silent" - but Polish word is not negative, it's neutral! :-), in both written languages there are some special characters. In Polish we have those tails in "a", "e" and additional lines in "l" or a mark at the top of "o" - and so on.. :-), Germans have their "o" and "e" with double marks at the top or this superb "S" (long "S" - like in "fleissig" or "fleiBig" :-), which looks like B for me and sometimes is written as double "s". Please excuse me, I like languages ;-)

Additionally, as far as I remember FineReader not only recognizes the symbol patterns, but also performs some additional lexical and syntax analyses if he is unable to recognize a letter (or a whole word in such case). Moreover, in my case it is tested tool ;-) So, I'm using FineReader on any occasion, but probably everyone has his own choice (what about Recognita? It was quite nice with the English texts, as far as I know German is a language which belongs to the same group like English, so... maybe it will also be good with German - OCR is just a part of the work, after that, a good OCR should make some additional grammar analyses to generate more correct results of recognition). Anyway, do you know, that most of us are using languages (as their native languages) which belongs to the same Indo-European family? Isn't it a nice thing ;-)

Ok... Any German guy who can recommend a good OCR for German language?

---

Off-topic story - I just have to tell that one. As I said, in Polish, we are using a word "Niemiec" to describe a German guy. "Niemy" in Polish language means "speechless" or "silent", so "Niemiec" is a guy who is not able to speak ("Niemy" = is almost like = "Niemiec" in ancient Polish and both words are neutral)... So, "Niemiec" is a silent man, not even giving any voice - just looking at you. Why? Hmm... Thousands years ago, probably before the Poland have been stated as an European country in 966 AD (in this year we take the Christianity form Czechs, just to avoid possible, further German political influence, although we get the first King crowned thanks to Germans, it was between 1000 - 1025 AD, as Boleslaw Chrobry=>Boleslaw the Brave was the close ally of Otton III (the Third), some sources are even describing this realtion as real friendship, not only political alliance), there were mainly forests on the Polish-German border. Probably, from time to time, the guys have been meeting themselves during hunting or during harvesting the forest goods and... because Polish guys have been unable to communicate with the Germans (ok - pre-Germans and pre-Polish guys :-) they called "these other strange people from the forest, who are unable to speak anything in the <<one and only possible language>>" that way... I mean "Niemcy" - people who are not talking, silent ones. To be clear, it means only that these people are unable to speak, they are silent, it is not in the negative meaning, it is neutral. So, now you can imagine, we are using the word "niemiecki" in Polish (Germans = "Niemcy", German language = "niemiecki") to describe the German language - it exactly means "the language used by people who are not communicating with others using spoken language, as they are the silent ones". So... how should look such a language - it should be silence if I'm thinking correctly or maybe it should exist in written form only? But, everything I can say about my native, Polish language - it's so hard to learn, as it could seem to be illogical in many grammar things... and it's a funny language in some meanings (like with "Niemiec" word).

I hope you have fun reading this story. I just can't stop myslef as I love languages - not only programming languages but also natural ones ;-). You know - show me your language and I'll tell you what is your way of thinking (sloving problems).

It's good we all can use English at least to some level of communication, but... we have to remember that we all think in our own languages first. These things are called cultural differences - another example - double negation is not a mistake in Polish and all the words can be used in any order, so:

"Najlepsze pozdrowienia ze slonecznej Warszawy" - is the most common syntax and is correct, but...
... "Ze slonecznej Warszawy najlepsze pozdrowienia" - is less common but also correct, and...
..."Ze slonecznej najlepsze pozdrowienia Warszawy" - is also good, but sounds poetic and could occur in a poem ;-)

I'll not translate last 3 sentences as these are greetings - do it yourself if you want to have some fun.

LANGUAGES = FUN!
Greetings, my friends.

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Cyprian » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:36 am

no no, historia, jezyk, technika, niezly pakiet informacji beastie :)
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:41 am

What i could find:
Najlepsze pozdrowienia ze slonecznej Warszawy = Best greetings from sunny Warzaw
historia, jezyk, technika, niezly pakiet informacji = ??? :wink:
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Nyh » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:02 am

beastie wrote:Germans have their "o" and "e" with double marks at the top or this superb "S" (long "S" - like in "fleissig" or "fleiBig" :-), which looks like B for me and sometimes is written as double "s". Please excuse me, I like languages ;-)

Not quite correct. The Germans have ä, ö, ü and ß as special characters. When not available ä -> ae, ö -> oe, ü -> ue and ß -> ss. The ä, ö, ü are also available as capitals, the ß is not because words can not start with an ß.

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby beastie » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:30 pm

Nyh wrote:
beastie wrote:Germans have their "o" and "e" with double marks at the top or this superb "S" (long "S" - like in "fleissig" or "fleiBig" :-), which looks like B for me and sometimes is written as double "s". Please excuse me, I like languages ;-)

Not quite correct. The Germans have ä, ö, ü and ß as special characters. When not available ä -> ae, ö -> oe, ü -> ue and ß -> ss. The ä, ö, ü are also available as capitals, the ß is not because words can not start with an ß.

Hans Wessels


Right, I was really fast writing this post :-) and I'm rather not familiar with German (unfortunatelly as there is a lot of high quality stuf written in German available for Atari user). Just wanted to give you some fun reading the post.

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby beastie » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:24 am

keili wrote:What i could find:
Najlepsze pozdrowienia ze slonecznej Warszawy = Best greetings from sunny Warzaw


You're right! :-) So... :cheers:

keili wrote:historia, jezyk, technika, niezly pakiet informacji = ??? :wink:


It means: "history, language, technology, quite nice information packet" - Cyprian has appreciated my post with these words ;-)

Have a nice day...

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby keili » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:06 pm

Let get back to topic now :wink: .
Work has started and i would like to present you the first result, the table of contents, quickly done with Acrobat Pro 8. I will compare the result with Abby soon.
I'm not always in the office during the next 2 weeks, so everything will be scanned (hopefully) around the 25th.
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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby beastie » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:37 pm

keili wrote:Let get back to topic now :wink: .
Work has started and i would like to present you the first result, the table of contents, quickly done with Acrobat Pro 8. I will compare the result with Abby soon.
I'm not always in the office during the next 2 weeks, so everything will be scanned (hopefully) around the 25th.


Yo! :-)

The result is really nice!

Regards

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Re: WANTED: Profibuch or ST Internals

Postby Mug UK » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:15 pm

I concur .. now who's going to translate it (only joking!)
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk


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