To report errors, bugs, or not ?

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AtariZoll
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To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:55 am

Yes, this is kind of Hamlet type question here.
I write this just because I experienced very negative reception of bug/error reporting + may add - once in case of giving hint for improving SW only in 3 cases. And 2 of them happened right here, in this forum.
So, it was Darek Mihocka (Gemulator), whom I suggested some floppy related improvement in e-mail, what was even not my first e-mail to him. And he went so insulted, like I said that his floppy code is bad and so, then when I went in details, he just said that disabling my mails.
Case 2: reporting errors in Gamebase ST - reception was awful. As I know nothing is corrected ever, despite all reports were valid. Instead it, some other actions were performed . And yes, that project is now on idle, maybe no people interested to contribute ?
Case 3: Hatari. Despite I helped them in past with some fixes, with my test program for seeking valid CPU opcodes - what resulted in better CPU emulation, they threaten me like some idiot in thread where I reported problems with TT sound emulation. Spent really lot of time in testings, explaining things in thread, but obviously they don't like any critic, even don't like to run some game in test purpose. But they like some beginners who can do automated compiling. So, I guess that Hatari team has serious problems to attract people contributing. They have miserable Windows version treatment.
Unless they find someone with time, knowledge and interest it will be so in future too.
In any case, they just lost one person, who wanted to help, and make things better. I guess that is much easier to get insulted instead listen on what other wants to say, and even to make some tests self. I'm really disappointed a lot. Never expected that it will be so bad .
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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alexh
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Re: To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby alexh » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:48 am

I was watching that thread and they really did want to help and be helped.

My take on it was they didn't have as much interest in the bug as you did because they were not experiencing the same problems. They couldn't recreate it easily from the directions they had. And being on a different platform didn't help either.

You went out of your way spending many hours installing Linux and writing test programs in an attempt to get onto the same platform and show your bug was a real bug and that it was a core bug and not a platform bug.

You should be commended on the hard work you put in to help improve the accuracy of Hatari and the experience for us users.

But

When the Hatari team couldn't follow your bug recreation steps, Didn't understand what it was you were trying to tell them, and other users started cutting in saying "works for me!" I thought the discussions descended into a dark place.

Had at that point the problem been better described (say with two wave files showing the differences or a step by step guide 100% reproducible) I feel the Hatari people would have given you more of their time and isolated the issue.

There was friction on both sides. At that point one side just has to be the bigger better person and say. "Right we have a difference of opinion but let's forget it. I just want to get this analyzed and fixed. How are we going to do this? What do you need from me?"

I do hope you reconsider. Continue to use Hatari. Create a 100% definitive bug report which no one can contest. The world will go "ah..... right. I can see the same thing. I understand what you mean. Yes. Something not right."

AtariZoll
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Re: To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:02 am

Thanx for your opinion. I think that you are right in most of written. But I corrected my test examples, and I realized + said it to npoma. that player problem was because too high CPU load in Win. What was worst part is that I finally gave him easy case - game Murder, which works on all platforms, and it has YM only playback, so no need for any patches. He could run it all in 5 minutes. Instead it, he came again with already resolved CPU load problem.
Yes, some bug reporting (as Steven Seagal) proposed would be good. But only if they additionally change their attitude - especially toward Windows versions and gaming. How it is possible that after 4 days he did not run DM (most famous ST game) at all in Hatari ?
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby troed » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:07 am

AtariZoll wrote:even don't like to run some game in test purpose


As one of the persons who make Hatari builds I guess I could qualify as being on the "team" (it's an open source project after all) - and I did use your instructions to validate the bug report using the game mentioned, once I understood the point you were trying to get across. I also agree with you that it doesn't strike me as having anything to do with CPU exhaustion. It could well have something to do with timers, but need additional investigation.

You do spend 90% of your posts claiming superiority and attacking people however, for some reason. The 10% that is left is good and valid input. You're trying to claim that the problem is with those who don't like wading through that 90% of unnecessary rants to get to the goodies though, and I would be surprised if many agree with you.

When everyone tells you that you have communications issues, the problem doesn't lie with everyone else. Consider it a bug report.

AtariZoll
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Re: To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby AtariZoll » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:58 am

Well, I think that "90% of your posts claiming superiority and attacking people" is ridiculous. If there was some 'attacking', that was max 10% - and I still say that it was right. What took much more space in that thread was talk about my troubles - indeed, no one is obligated to read it all. But it was something what I'm sure did not affect only me - that silly problems in Ubuntu for instance.
'Superiority' - yes, I can feel superior when need to explain basic things to people hosting SW on their sites. It is that I'm not that good at all, only relative to those who are so low.
"When everyone tells you that you have communications issues" - you consider self and 5 others here as "everyone" :mrgreen:
Well, that's exactly when problems start - how to communicate with people claiming ridiculous things, even don't take care about what words using ?
I'm assure you that min 90% of people with who I communicate think that I'm polite, fair. Don't generalize self and few similar ...
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: To report errors, bugs, or not ?

Postby mikro » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:09 am

AtariZoll wrote:I'm assure you that min 90% of people with who I communicate think that I'm polite, fair. Don't generalize self and few similar ...

Name three.


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