Norton Sucks Ass

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby techie_alison » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:42 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:My professional opinion : use Kaspersky. Best one out there hands up.


Down dammit. Down.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby keili » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:01 pm

techie_alison wrote:I don't run ANY AV software whatsoever!!

My system is Ghosted (that's backed up) ...

NORTON Ghost :wink: ? Ah no, Symantec sells it now. It really a much better way to backup and restore a system. I also have an image of a fresh installed Windows.
BTW, Allie, have you ever tried to backup an Atari drive with Ghost? I wonder, if it works.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby bullis1 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:08 pm

techie_alison wrote:
bullis1 wrote:My internet browser (Arachne) runs under DOS


Hey, my Dad used to run that, on an IBM XT 286. But he's dead. That's not a joke, I'm rather upset about it and quite matter of fact. We haven't switched his computer off yet.


My condolences.

A side note about Arachne: It's been GPLed for a few years now and has seen many updates by a few authors. If you have an old PC around, it's a great option for browsing, emailing, or downloading. And it's safe!

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:18 pm

I used to ghost the system drive myself, in fact I might do it again to both the XP and Vista partitions, Aly I think that running a PC without any protection at all these days is just silly especially if you use online banking / paypal etc as I do, not to mention logging into other online registered services etc, sure you can restore everything if it gets trashed by a virus etc but if someone gets your login details then ghosting may not resolve the issue, then again if you dont use the computer for anything like that (and therefore have nothing vulnerable on it) then your point is well taken :|
So I disagree that the act of making an effort to protect a person's personal information from hackers is in any way idiotic, I know you are joking really :wink:

You are right about hording junk though, I currently have around 780 gigs of junk on my PC :)

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby techie_alison » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:56 pm

RetroGamerUK wrote:Aly I think that running a PC without any protection at all these days is just silly especially if you use online banking / paypal etc as I do, not to mention logging into other online registered services etc,

It's a good job that I don't then innit ;-) People think I'm mad when I tell them that I'm not entering ANYTHING into a computer. "I'm NOT entering anything into THAT!" "NO, you can't have a CV!" I won't even use my chip & pin card at anywhere other than Sainsburys. I don't use cashpoints, I get my money out over the counter. I grew up with these blasted things and hacked around two school RM networks, supposedly secure. At 8 years old I had to figure out binary in a sweated panic to cover my tracks, while my classmates were still counting bananas. The third network, a Novell one, I couldn't hack around, so I wrote a virus which spread itself from one machine to the next capturing keystrokes and storing them in an encrypted file on a public file share. :) They called my parents in for that one. I was rather pleased with myself actually. It was ever so simple. It was their fault for having a public share which the machines executed files from on boot up, it just copied the TSR file to each computer and went on and on, about 100 computers in all. 8) I had done what only other people had dreamt of, administrator rights to the whole network. I was banned from using computers at one point, on a Computer Science course. 8O

If there is a way, then someone WILL find it. I'd rather concentrate my efforts on recovery rather than prevention.

So, no. I don't trust computers. And I certainly don't trust people or organisations either. Certainly not PayPal or eBay, and certainly not a bank. Modern computers are NOT secure. The ONLY way to make them secure is to have an application boot off of a floppy disk at BIOS level, and to dialup straight to an organisation. But of course that would be expensive wouldn't it.. I worked for NatWest for 2-years and security only comes down to how economic it is. The decision making Directors couldn't care less, that and they don't understand the implications of what they're being told means either.

Modern computers are really REALLY bad news. So much for the paperless office. So much for efficency. We're more wasteful and inefficient than ever before. I worked for an estate agents one summer, they didn't have any computers. It was a wonderful place. Diaries, people skills, everything.

I hate bloody computers. I'd rather be having this conversation in a weekly Atari meet at the local community centre, face to face. Not this digital myriad of bits and 1000-byte coyly altered marketing megabytes. The Internet is a wonderful thing with such huge potential. In the mid to late 90's it was really getting there, then everyone took over. Now look at it. No one can agree on anything.

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bullis1 wrote:My condolences.

Thank you :) Doesn't change anything though. (((hugs)))

keili wrote:BTW, Allie, have you ever tried to backup an Atari drive with Ghost? I wonder, if it works.

Nope, haven't tried. I have a mirror of my Atari hard disk on the server, and PARCP it over whenever I do a format. There's not much, say only about 30-40Mbytes tops, of only about 5Mbytes I have on the HDD. Most of the ST I've done has been hardware tweaking and developing.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:46 pm

techie_alison wrote:People think I'm mad when I tell them that I'm not entering ANYTHING into a computer. "I'm NOT entering anything into THAT!" "NO, you can't have a CV!" I won't even use my chip & pin card at anywhere other than Sainsburys. I don't use cashpoints, I get my money out over the counter.

I hope you also cover your head with cooking foil to stop "them" reading your mind :lol: well if they read mine right now they would put me in an iron mask 8O

techie_alison wrote:I hate bloody computers. I'd rather be having this conversation in a weekly Atari meet at the local community centre, face to face.

I thought you'd never ask [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_12.gif] I'll leave the arrangements to you, just let me know the time/date of the first meeting, see you there :)

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby techie_alison » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:51 pm

RetroGamerUK wrote:
techie_alison wrote:I hope you also cover your head with cooking foil to stop "them" reading your mind :lol: well if they read mine right now they would put me in an iron mask 8O

I wouldn't go quite that far. That's called being paranoid. In the case of computers, you have EVERY reason to be paranoid. It's not the computers per-se that are the problem.

I'm not the one running (and paying for) AV software. ;)
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby techie_alison » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:41 am

RetroGamerUK wrote:I thought you'd never ask [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_12.gif] I'll leave the arrangements to you, just let me know the time/date of the first meeting, see you there :)


lol :) one day, on day :) i'm just really private at the moment. it's not you don't worry. :thumbs: x
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:22 am

Don't worry, I prob won't be able to attend such a distant event, (see my "standard lame get out excuses" :wink: )

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby manicx » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:25 pm

RetroGamerUK wrote:So what I am trying to do is separate the shocking facts from the (un)fanboyisms and politics, these are the sites I found:

Website / Result for Norton AV / McAffee / Grisoft AVG Pro / Kaspersky / Bitdefender / Trend / Eset Nod32


Mate, sorry to say that, but all those sites and references suck big time. Best site is http://www.virus.gr. They make the most extensive tests and serious tests. The last tests they had gave the following results:

1. Kaspersky έκδοση 7.0.0.43 beta - 99.23%

2. Kaspersky έκδοση 6.0.2.614 - 99.13%

3. Active Virus Shield by AOL έκδοση 6.0.0.308 - 99.13%

4. ZoneAlarm with KAV Antivirus έκδοση 7.0.337.000 - 99.13%

5. F-Secure 2007 έκδοση 7.01.128 - 98.56%

6. BitDefender Professional έκδοση 10 - 97.70%

7. BullGuard έκδοση 7.0.0.23 - 96.59%

8. Ashampoo έκδοση 1.30 - 95.80%

9. AntiVir έκδοση 7.03.01.53 Classic - 95.08%

10. eScan έκδοση 8.0.671.1 - 94.43%

11. Nod32 έκδοση 2.70.32 - 94.00%

12. CyberScrub έκδοση 1.0 - 93.27%

13. Avast Professional έκδοση 4.7.986 - 92.82%

14. AVG Anti-Malware έκδοση 7.5.465 - 92.14%

15. F-Prot έκδοση 6.0.6.4 - 91.35%

16. McAfee Enterprise έκδοση 8.5.0i+AntiSpyware module - 90.65%

17. Panda 2007 έκδοση 2.01.00 - 90.06%

18. Norman έκδοση 5.90.37 - 88.47%

19. ArcaVir 2007 - 88.24%

20. McAfee έκδοση 11.0.213 - 86.13%

21. Norton Professional 2007 - 86.08%

22. Rising AV έκδοση 19.19.42 - 85.46%

23. Dr. Web έκδοση 4.33.2 - 85.09%

24. Trend Micro Internet Security 2007 έκδοση 15.00.1450 - 84.96%

25. Iolo έκδοση 1.1.8 - 83.35%

26. Virus Chaser έκδοση 5.0a - 79.51%

27. VBA32 έκδοση 3.11.4 - 77.66%

28. Sophos Sweep έκδοση 6.5.1 - 69.79%

29. ViRobot Expert έκδοση 5.0 - 69.53%

30. Antiy Ghostbusters έκδοση 5.2.1 - 65.95%

31. Zondex Guard έκδοση 5.4.2 - 63.79%

32. Vexira 2006 έκδοση 5.002.62 - 60.07%

33. V3 Internet Security έκδοση 2007.04.21.00 - 55.09%

34. Comodo έκδοση 2.0.12.47 beta - 53.94%

35. Comodo έκδοση 1.1.0.3 - 53.39%

36. A-Squared Anti-Malware έκδοση 2.1 - 52.69%

37. Ikarus έκδοση 5.19 - 50.56%

38. Digital Patrol έκδοση 5.00.37 - 49.80%

39. ClamWin έκδοση 0.90.1 - 47.95%

40. Quick Heal έκδοση 9.00 - 38.64%

41. Solo έκδοση 5.1 build 5.7.3 - 34.52%

42. Protector Plus έκδοση 8.0.A02 - 33.13%

43. PcClear έκδοση 1.0.4.3 - 27.14%

44. AntiTrojan Shield έκδοση 2.1.0.14 - 20.25%

45. PC Door Guard έκδοση 4.2.0.35 - 19.95%

46. Trojan Hunter έκδοση 4.6.930 - 19.20%

47. VirIT έκδοση 6.1.75 - 18.78%

48. E-Trust PestPatrol έκδοση 8.0.0.6 - 11.80%

49. Trojan Remover έκδοση 6.6.0 - 10.44%

50. The Cleaner έκδοση 4.2.4319 - 7.26%

51. True Sword έκδοση 4.2 - 2.20%

52. Hacker Eliminator έκδοση 1.2 - 1.43%

53. Abacre έκδοση 1.4 - 0.00%

έκδοση means version...

Personally, I believe best free A/V is Avira's Antivir. Best commercial is Kapersky, but I also care about the system resources they consume and NOD32 is beating everyone else.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Desty » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:59 pm

Great link, thanks magicx. I have AntiVir on a couple of machines and it runs well. I'll have to check out this NOD32 though!

[edit]
Try this one too.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby unseenmenace » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:22 am

From what I've seen NOD32 is actually very good but the interface is not the most intuitive so I'll keep recommending AVG to customers since some of them have a hard enough time opening a web browser let alone something complicated like an AV proggie LOL
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:51 am

That's just what I was looking for Manicx :)
A non-sponsored site using testing instead of so called "user reviews", a shame it is not in English - thanks for the translation.
EDIT.
Heheh, I just clicked the "English version" button :wink:

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:37 pm

Well, I am going for the Kaspersky option, and there is 50% off this March :)
http://www.kaspersky.co.uk/store

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Grunaki » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:24 pm

Hello - not been around these boards for a while, so just thought I'd throw in my tuppence ha'penny's worth...

Not basing it on stats but on personal experience, I don't like Norton much.. It does slow the system down and it's an absolute bastard to get rid of when you're done with it.

I had Norton AntiVirus 2006 and it kept causing software conflicts and glitches all over the shop - and did slow my system down to quite a large degree.

When the licence period ended and it was casing me to buy Norton 2007, I decided I'd had enough and uninstalled the bastard.. Or tried to. The uninstaller is notoriously crap and leaves hundreds of meg's worth of 'scrap files' all over your hard drive, along with a whole lot of registry tags that now go nowhere, but the registry still tries to reference. I had to go through it with regedit and remove every instance of 'norton' or 'symantec' from there, which was a lengthy and tedious process. (Nero is another one that's like this - uninstall it at your peril - the system will never forget that it was once there without vast amounts of registry surgery).

I now use Spybot Search and Destroy (with TeaTimer engaged) and NOD32 (which updates itself at least twice daily) and they seem to do the job pretty well. NOD has picked up on a couple of instances where a virus could have been trying to infiltrate my system and it stopped it, so it seems to be working. I run scans every week and haven't found anything malevolent so far.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby PaulB » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:47 pm

Norton have a file download on their site that will get rid of every file and registry entry on your pc. On another note I tried Kaspersky 6 and I liked it, at least for a while until you have to pay to keep downloading virus definitions. After that I went the way of AVG free and haven't looked back since. Paying for protection sucks. If you connect to the net via a router then you don't need a software firewall including the windows one. It's only what you may be downloading that accesses the net and downloads other crap so beware of what you're downloading.

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:37 am

Just cots me £35.00 for a 2 year license for Kaspersky Internet Security, that works out at around 33 p a week and the virus database updates every hour..
The internet fraud industry is worth billions per year now, so I think my investment was worth the money.

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby manicx » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:49 am

It definitely worth it. I bought a 2 year license for NOD32 but I cheated somehow. I ordered it through their US shop in $. Since the euro-dollar rate favors the first, it was a steal! :angel:
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Grunaki » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:18 am

PaulB wrote:Norton have a file download on their site that will get rid of every file and registry entry on your pc..


I don't doubt it - that's about the only way to get rid of the bastard! :P

Seriously though - I downloaded a program like that from them, and it appeared to do next to bugger all.. I think it deleted some stuff, but left tons of it behind. It may have been because we had installed a newer version of Norton on top of an older version, but I they had me under the impression that it was ok to do that. I think it's mainly because they're crap. I can't see myself ever buying another Norton product. (Even though Norton Commander kicked ass when I was in College back in the early 90's, but they weren't owned by Symantec then.)
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby PaulB » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:25 am

When I wrote that I was actually thinking 'allegedly' at the time. I'm also fed up with the many programs out there that leave files and folders on the drive and registry entries when they're uninstalled. If the makers know that they are writing these things somewhere then why on earth can't they remember to delete them. I'm of the opinion that the system should be left exactly as it was before you installed their software with no trace of it once it's gone.

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Grunaki » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:36 am

Thinking about it a bit harder, it's probably 50% them being lazy and 50% them covering their own asses.. I bet a lot of the stuff it leaves behind is things that integrate with other programs on your computer like DLLs etc., and while deleting them PROBABLY won't cause a problem, there's nothing to say that it DEFINATELY won't stop other programs from working - in which case Norton could be found liable and possibly have action taken against them.

While it's not that big of a deal for home users ("oh well, that program stopped working, guess I'l have to re-install it..") if it happened on a company network, you get Mr. Pissed-off Businessman jumping on the litigation train to the tune of "Your shoddy code closed cost me X-thousand dollars in man-hours and I want it back!"
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Desty » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:24 pm

PaulB wrote:If the makers know that they are writing these things somewhere then why on earth can't they remember to delete them. I'm of the opinion that the system should be left exactly as it was before you installed their software with no trace of it once it's gone.

The developers might agree with you but not their managers? Incidentally, most software I've uninstalled in Windows seems to leave emptyish folders in the Program Files folder. I just delete them when I spot them, but I dunno why they do it. Either it's some recommended practice by Microshaft, or they couldn't delete some file that was in use (e.g. the uninstaller...) and didn't bother scheduling it to be deleted after. There's loads of ways to do it properly though... :roll:
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby PaulB » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:20 pm

Desty wrote:most software I've uninstalled in Windows seems to leave emptyish folders in the Program Files folder.


Usually a program writes a hidden installation log file to it's own directory and it seems the programmers forgot to delete their own installation log file so when the uninstaller trys to delete the folder it can't because there's a file in there and the folder should be empty before it can be deleted.

I had to re-install Windows a while back. I renamed the old Windows folder to something else first. I found that 90% of the programs I had installed previously still work perfectly without having to be installed again. The only programs that didn't work were the ones that looked for something specific in the registry.

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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby Desty » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:52 pm

PaulB wrote:I had to re-install Windows a while back. I renamed the old Windows folder to something else first. I found that 90% of the programs I had installed previously still work perfectly without having to be installed again. The only programs that didn't work were the ones that looked for something specific in the registry.

About 2 years ago, I reinstalled XP on my ma's machine, leaving most of the files (including everything in %SystemRoot%\Program Files) intact. In my case, it seemed 90% or more of the installed programs looked for stuff in the registry and wouldn't work properly. So I basically reinstalled everything. Either you got lucky or I got unlucky :P
I'd gotten used to the linux system where either you "install" something manually with make/make install and just place it in your home dir, or into /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin or whatever, or if you're lucky and running a system with proper package management (Debian/Ubuntu, Mandriva, most of them nowadays I suppose) you can just "apt-get install firefox" or "apt-get remove firefox".

Then I got a Macbook and found that "installing" software usually consists of you dragging and dropping it to /Applications (if you want). The only real side-effects are in your ~/Library/... directories, which you can browse, edit or delete at will.

Maybe Vista is a bit better re: install management? I haven't touched it yet.
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Re: Norton Sucks Ass

Postby RetroGamerUK » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:55 pm

I also used the Norton remover program and it did just that, took about 30 secs to wipe it all 8O
I have been using Vista for a while now and have not experienced anything bad or particularly good about the windows software installer, seems the same as the one in XP :|

Since I have been using Karpersky however I have been aware of many attempts by software that is installing or even uninstalling, to access the net, the windows photo viewer event wanted to contact an MS website for some reason, then when ot was blocked it tried a different MS site....
Makes you wonder just how much spyware there is in there eh.... :|


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