Doom for TT030.

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Atarieterno
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Doom for TT030.

Postby Atarieterno » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:23 pm

Hi guys;
I've seen on YouTube this video of "Doom for Atari TT", and excuse my ignorance about adaptations of games but: where are there links to download games like Doom or Quake for Atari ?, is it real or is it a fake?
I have TT and Falcon (without accelerating) and I would like to try them.
Greetings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0pDN4dPYZg

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Moulinaie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:14 pm

This is a reality:

Patrice Mandin (a french guy) made the adaptation:

http://patrice.mandin.pagesperso-orange ... -jeux.html

Guillaume.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Atarieterno » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:22 pm

Moulinaie wrote:This is a reality:

Patrice Mandin (a french guy) made the adaptation:
http://patrice.mandin.pagesperso-orange ... -jeux.html
Guillaume.


Thanks for answering, Guillaume.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby kcr2000 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:09 pm

It's real, but not playable at this speed on the TT...
For a stock Falcon BadMood is the best Doom.
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:59 pm

Purely CPU based Quake ports are even less playable than CPU based Doom ports.

BadMood runs at playable speed because it has highly optimized rendering engine written from scratch to take full advantage of both Falcon CPU & DSP (by a person why had written games for living, both for Atari and e.g. for Playstation). I think in total it took several man years of effort, that was freely contributed to Atari users. Falcon DSP is more powerful than the CPU, without it BadMood couldn't be even nearly as fast as it's now.

BadMood supports (at least it supported at some point during its development) both Doom I and Doom II WADs. Doom II WADs are generally more complex (more things visible at the same time, so more calculations & rendering needed) and therefore clearly slower than Doom I WADs.

DML had also code for *rendering* Quake levels on Falcon, but that didn't include any game play support (in BadMood, Doom game logic calculations took about half of the CPU cycles, and it includes some simplifications e.g. to sound propagation, compared to PC version).

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby julyan » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:41 am

Moulinaie wrote:This is a reality:

Patrice Mandin (a french guy) made the adaptation:

http://patrice.mandin.pagesperso-orange ... -jeux.html


Thanks for the clarification!
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby mrbombermillzy » Tue May 22, 2018 6:28 pm

Eero Tamminen wrote:Purely CPU based Quake ports are even less playable than CPU based Doom ports.


How about the Wolfenstein port then? If anything, its too fast for the TT! :)

It can be picked up from Ray/TSCC.

I know its not quite Quake or Doom, which was the original request, but its less painful to play on stock hardware. (No pain at all on the TT.)

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby boratintheuk » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:24 pm

How does BadMooD even run so well on a stock Falcon? It's basically unplayable on any Amiga or Mac with a 68030 and it looks just as good as the 386 if not better. I'm still an Atari noob over here so forgive me.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby jury » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:14 am

boratintheuk wrote:How does BadMooD even run so well on a stock Falcon? It's basically unplayable on any Amiga or Mac with a 68030


Its not the Falcon 68030 "responsible" for this ( Atari TT has faster 68030 and it does not help run Doom better )
It plays this way on Falcon as many calculations are done by the second processor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_56000

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby AnthonyJ » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 am

boratintheuk wrote:How does BadMooD even run so well on a stock Falcon? It's basically unplayable on any Amiga or Mac with a 68030 and it looks just as good as the 386 if not better. I'm still an Atari noob over here so forgive me.


Eero essentially answered above. The two key things are that the Falcon's DSP is a very powerful co-processor (which is not just for sound), and it has a completely custom rendering engine written by a talented developer that takes full advantage of the Falcon's hardware, rather than a simple "port + optimise" of id's code.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:14 pm

BadMood custom rendering engine requires also game data to be pre-processed to a more optimal format, before game starts. Its sound engine (soft synth + sound mixing) is also a custom one.

On the upside, custom rendering engine allows additional features like mouse look (in ID SW that came only with Quake), 16-bit graphics instead of 8-bit (*), and transparency.

(*) On Atari Falcon, 16-bit graphics are nearly as fast as 8-bit graphics for game like this, because unlike Amiga, Falcon doesn't support chunky 8-bit format, only planar 8-bit mode.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby mikro » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:02 pm

Eero Tamminen wrote:unlike Amiga, Falcon doesn't support chunky 8-bit format, only planar 8-bit mode.

I guess you meant here like Amiga. :) Chunky mode is possible only with a gfx card, like on Falcon.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby leech » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 am

mikro wrote:
Eero Tamminen wrote:unlike Amiga, Falcon doesn't support chunky 8-bit format, only planar 8-bit mode.

I guess you meant here like Amiga. :) Chunky mode is possible only with a gfx card, like on Falcon.

Ha, I was going to say, a lot of Amiga developers were stumped why Commodore didn't add a Chunky mode, whereas Atari did on the Falcon.

It's one of the reasons from what I've read that the Amiga couldn't really do a decent Doom clone without some accelerators / graphics cards. Also one of the claims why the Amiga died, because it couldn't pull off Doom.

I'm curious to know if anyone has ever benchmarked BadMood vs Doom on the Jaguar. Would be pretty funny if DML managed to squeeze better performance out of the Falcon than John Carmack had gotten out of the Jaguar.
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby jury » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:52 am

leech wrote:I'm curious to know if anyone has ever benchmarked BadMood vs Doom on the Jaguar. Would be pretty funny if DML managed to squeeze better performance out of the Falcon than John Carmack had gotten out of the Jaguar.


???
Are you sure you have seen Doom on Jaguar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUH2qUTEfw

No need to do any benchmarks to see which one performs way better ;)

Edit:
And if I remember well, when I read review of Doom's back in the days, Jaguar version was recognized as the best performing Doom engine of all
Last edited by jury on Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Neurotoxic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:22 am

Might there also be a 68040 version for the Milan or Hades clones?
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby vido » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 am

Neurotoxic wrote:Might there also be a 68040 version for the Milan or Hades clones?

Yes, pmdoom is compiled for all Atari clones including the FireBee.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Neurotoxic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:48 pm

vido wrote:
Neurotoxic wrote:Might there also be a 68040 version for the Milan or Hades clones?

Yes, pmdoom is compiled for all Atari clones including the FireBee.


I'm not sure, but I think I tried to run it on my Milan040 and it didn't work. I think I shall have a look again. :wink:
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby vido » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:53 pm

Neurotoxic wrote:
vido wrote:
Neurotoxic wrote:Might there also be a 68040 version for the Milan or Hades clones?

Yes, pmdoom is compiled for all Atari clones including the FireBee.


I'm not sure, but I think I tried to run it on my Milan040 and it didn't work. I think I shall have a look again. :wink:

Did you try it under GEM? It should run under GEM.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby leech » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:57 pm

jury wrote:
leech wrote:I'm curious to know if anyone has ever benchmarked BadMood vs Doom on the Jaguar. Would be pretty funny if DML managed to squeeze better performance out of the Falcon than John Carmack had gotten out of the Jaguar.


???
Are you sure you have seen Doom on Jaguar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUH2qUTEfw

No need to do any benchmarks to see which one performs way better ;)

Edit:
And if I remember well, when I read review of Doom's back in the days, Jaguar version was recognized as the best performing Doom engine of all

Ha, yes I actually own two copies. But then I think when I played BadMood it was on my 060.. And it's been years since I fired up Doom on the Jag. Too bad the JagLink code was broken, my brother and I wanted to try to beat it on Nightmare two player, but it would kill the connection and we'd have to start over.

Recently watched a video about all the console versions of Doom, seems most of them were based on the Jaguar version.
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Cyprian » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:28 pm

leech wrote:Too bad the JagLink code was broken

I read somewhere on AtariAge that JagLink code was corrected
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby Neurotoxic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:52 pm

vido wrote:
Neurotoxic wrote:
vido wrote:Yes, pmdoom is compiled for all Atari clones including the FireBee.


I'm not sure, but I think I tried to run it on my Milan040 and it didn't work. I think I shall have a look again. :wink:

Did you try it under GEM? It should run under GEM.


I was mistaken. It works! Hardly playable and sound effects that sounds painful but it works!

I tried it under MiNT 1.19 with XaAES and the Thing Desktop. Sometimes it's better not to open an application by a double click via the desktop. In that case TOSWIN2 is opening a window telling me that the process was terminated. But when I'm opening the ttp-file via TOSWIN2 it works!!! Odd behavior! I should it also try on my Firebee. 8)

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby vido » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:01 pm

Neurotoxic wrote:I was mistaken. It works! Hardly playable and sound effects that sounds painful but it works!

I tried it under MiNT 1.19 with XaAES and the Thing Desktop. Sometimes it's better not to open an application by a double click via the desktop. In that case TOSWIN2 is opening a window telling me that the process was terminated. But when I'm opening the ttp-file via TOSWIN2 it works!!! Odd behavior! I should it also try on my Firebee. 8)

It was playable on My Milan 060 and its even more playable on the FireBee. :)

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby leech » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Cyprian wrote:
leech wrote:Too bad the JagLink code was broken

I read somewhere on AtariAge that JagLink code was corrected

I had read that too. Wonder what the process is of getting that into a cartridge. Not that I have a secondary Jaguar anymore... I still have two Dooms and a Jaglink though.
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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby vido » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:57 pm

leech wrote:I had read that too. Wonder what the process is of getting that into a cartridge. Not that I have a secondary Jaguar anymore... I still have two Dooms and a Jaglink though.

I guess the easyest way is to use skunk board.

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Re: Doom for TT030.

Postby leech » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:58 pm

vido wrote:
leech wrote:I had read that too. Wonder what the process is of getting that into a cartridge. Not that I have a secondary Jaguar anymore... I still have two Dooms and a Jaglink though.

I guess the easyest way is to use skunk board.

Sounds like it'd be cheaper just to set up a couple old computers :P I do have one Skunkboard though. Still need to actually use it for something. Ha, why can't I retire now and play with my old toys?
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