Dragonflight

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Dragonflight

Postby Steven Seagal » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:55 am

I'd like to have this game working in Steem.
Was it even cracked? I see only pasti, CTR.

Disk support isn't obvious.
For backup disks, here's what in ST ram for formatting track 0:

Code: Select all

 28000: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28010: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28020: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28030: 4E 4E 29 F5 F7 F7  0 42 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28040: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E  0  0  0  0
 28050:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 F5 F5 F5 FE  0 30  1  2
 28060: F7 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28070: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 28080:  0 F5 F5 F5 FB  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 28090:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 280A0:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 280B0:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 280C0:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
...


After FE, we have 0 30 1 2 F7
which would be respectively track, side?, num, len, "generate CRC"

Then track 1:

Code: Select all

 28000: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28010: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28020: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 29 F5 F7 F7  1 42 4E 4E
 28030: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E  0  0  0
 28040:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 F5 F5 F5 FE F7  1  3
 28050: F7 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E
 28060: 4E 4E 4E 4E 4E  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 28070:  0 F5 F5 F5 FB  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 28080:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 28090:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
 280A0:  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
...


After FE, we have F7 (generate CRC!), 1, 3, F7??
Is it how it creates 1024byte sectors?
What would the CRC be?
This is all pretty tricky.
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby lotek_style » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:18 pm

Yes it was cracked very late... I suggest to use the Crack by Melcus from ECG.
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:39 pm

It was also re-released by the author in 2004 with no protection and bug fixes. But AFAIK it was a hard drive install and not disks.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3840

The Dragonflight disks are composed of sectors which fill in the complete track (6 KB). So we have no gaps and can fill 960 KB on each disk (6 KB/ track, 80 tracks, 2 sides).

I also use my own directory structure in which small files can share one single sector (normally each sector is dedicated to one file). In this way the sectors are always completely filled with data (exept for the last one).

All three ATARI ST versions (German, English and French*) used the same special disk layout. This was a 'standard' track 0 of course (to be bootable), but the other 79 tracks were in the 'single 6k sector format' (only one sector per track, but with a size of 6 KB). Most disk monitors, investigating the disk layout, only analyse track 0 in which there is a 'disk description section' in sector 0. But the data in that section is only valid for track 0.

Normally you have 9 sectors with 512 bytes of data in each sector on one track. Between the sectors you have gaps and sector-header information. It is no problem to write 10 sectors on one track. There were special formatting routines which allowed 11 sectors per track, but depending on the drive speed, the last sector overlapped the first one...

Our track layout was quite simple: One sector per track but with 6 KB of data (which corresponds to 12 sectors with 512 bytes). Leaving away the gaps and headers there is enough space for 6 KB. In this way a double sided disk can hold 960 KB of data.

But (!): The standard FAT uses at least one cluster (2 sectors) for each file and each cluster can only contain one file. This means that a file of 1 byte length would occupy a complete cluster that is 2 sectors/ 1024 bytes.

Solution: Dragonflight has also an own directory structure, which allows multiple files in one sector. This is only reasonable for read-only disks! But that's the case for the original game disks. And this special disk format with the special directory layout could only be read by directly programming the floppy disk contoller which currently no emulator is able to handle correctly. By the way, the disks were created with the AMIGA, who had no FDC at all and who could write the raw data to the disk drive.

The disk layout was not primary for having a copy protection but to get more data onto the disk. The real 'copy protection' is done by some questions concerning the manual: You have to type in some words from the manual.

* The language selection was also done with a simple assembly switch. I used 'language files' and text numbers. In the program I only used the text numbers and the 'printing subroutine' selected the corresponding sentence from the text file, independent of the language and the offset inside the file. (Udo Fischer)

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby bandit » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:07 pm

ftp.climatics.com
atari
atarist

Hang Loose archiv\Games\d\Dragon Flight

regards

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby Avanze » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:43 pm

bandit, I have trouble connecting to that ftp, "no data received".

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby bandit » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:56 pm

let me check my ftp server.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby Avanze » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:02 pm

bandit wrote:let me check my ftp server.


Thanks. It's working great now - much appreciated. Such a nice archive!

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:48 pm

alexh wrote:It was also re-released by the author in 2004 with no protection and bug fixes. But AFAIK it was a hard drive install and not disks.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3840

The Dragonflight disks are composed of sectors which fill in the complete track (6 KB). So we have no gaps and can fill 960 KB on each disk (6 KB/ track, 80 tracks, 2 sides).

I also use my own directory structure in which small files can share one single sector (normally each sector is dedicated to one file). In this way the sectors are always completely filled with data (exept for the last one).

All three ATARI ST versions (German, English and French*) used the same special disk layout. This was a 'standard' track 0 of course (to be bootable), but the other 79 tracks were in the 'single 6k sector format' (only one sector per track, but with a size of 6 KB). Most disk monitors, investigating the disk layout, only analyse track 0 in which there is a 'disk description section' in sector 0. But the data in that section is only valid for track 0.

Normally you have 9 sectors with 512 bytes of data in each sector on one track. Between the sectors you have gaps and sector-header information. It is no problem to write 10 sectors on one track. There were special formatting routines which allowed 11 sectors per track, but depending on the drive speed, the last sector overlapped the first one...

Our track layout was quite simple: One sector per track but with 6 KB of data (which corresponds to 12 sectors with 512 bytes). Leaving away the gaps and headers there is enough space for 6 KB. In this way a double sided disk can hold 960 KB of data.

But (!): The standard FAT uses at least one cluster (2 sectors) for each file and each cluster can only contain one file. This means that a file of 1 byte length would occupy a complete cluster that is 2 sectors/ 1024 bytes.

Solution: Dragonflight has also an own directory structure, which allows multiple files in one sector. This is only reasonable for read-only disks! But that's the case for the original game disks. And this special disk format with the special directory layout could only be read by directly programming the floppy disk contoller which currently no emulator is able to handle correctly. By the way, the disks were created with the AMIGA, who had no FDC at all and who could write the raw data to the disk drive.

The disk layout was not primary for having a copy protection but to get more data onto the disk. The real 'copy protection' is done by some questions concerning the manual: You have to type in some words from the manual.

* The language selection was also done with a simple assembly switch. I used 'language files' and text numbers. In the program I only used the text numbers and the 'printing subroutine' selected the corresponding sentence from the text file, independent of the language and the offset inside the file. (Udo Fischer)


Udo remember wrong, because the disk 1 has a copy protection on track 79 on disk 1. then, the hard drive version he gave us is still copy protected and requires the original disk in drive A.

the goal Alex is to supported the original disk version of dragonflight in its original disk format under steem.
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby IFW » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:23 am

Would be great if someone could dump the originals and we could find unmodified copies eventually.

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:22 am

There were three localisations of the Atari version (English, French, German) which ones do you have? I have all three.

Dragonflight for Atari ST comes with three disks (A, B & C). Two of the disks (B & C) are never used directly. The game install makes backups of these two disks to "play" disks.

The game is designed to be playable on Atari ST with a single sided disk drive. I believe that Disk A and Disk C are single sided and B is double sided where the second side contains the data on Disk C.

I remember you telling me that the Amiga versions were duplicated with a trace machine.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=518389&postcount=8

I was led to believe the Atari disks mastered using an Amiga. Is there a chance they were also duplicated using an Amiga and not a trace machine?

Do any of your Atari DF dumps contain unmodified disks? I imagine that original disks B & C should always be unmodified?

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:45 am

dlfrsilver wrote:the goal Alex is to supported the original disk version of dragonflight in its original disk format under steem.

If that is true they why is Steven Segal asking about cracks?

(FYI : German : Dbug 192a&b, English : Atari Legend)

Dragonflight is speculated to write to copy protected disks as the game plays.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7054

You would need a disk image format which supports writing using copy protected techniques. AFAIK pasti.dll is not capable of that over multiple sessions?

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:14 am

I think that Steven S. is just curious how crackers solved saves from game, since it uses not standard (1K) sectors.

Pasti is not capable at all to write to STX images, even if it is image of standard floppy.
So, this is just additional head-ache to someone who works on adding write support to STX images :idea:

Another game with saves on non-standard floppy is Realm of the Trolls (aka Down at the Trolls) . It is with 512 byte sectors, but with sector #s starting at 0.
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:18 pm

alexh wrote:
dlfrsilver wrote:the goal Alex is to supported the original disk version of dragonflight in its original disk format under steem.

If that is true they why is Steven Segal asking about cracks?


He is not asking for cracks, he is asking for help because it's hard to handle !

As said, The atari ST version is copy protected, and i'm not talking about the format used, which is not the big deal, but the copy protection on disk.


(FYI : German : Dbug 192a&b, English : Atari Legend) Dragonflight is speculated to write to copy protected disks as the game plays.


=> which copy protection ? the copies of disks B and C are not protected (well nothing that would make a copier fails the copy).

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=7054 ; You would need a disk image format which supports writing using copy protected techniques. AFAIK pasti.dll is not capable of that over multiple sessions?
[/quote]

Steem would require 'ghost write' like in winuae for games that are writing on themselves. otherwise, another solution would be like on amstrad CPC, we had a first the DSK format, which was for cracks and only that, then the EDSK format has been created, it can holds ANY protection due to its flexibility, even weak bits protections. The *.ST format should be enhanced to support special formats. This would be the solution for games like dragonflight.
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:55 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:
alexh wrote:Dragonflight is speculated to write to copy protected disks as the game plays.

=> which copy protection ? the copies of disks B and C are not protected (well nothing that would make a copier fails the copy).
[snip]
The *.ST format should be enhanced to support special formats. This would be the solution for games like dragonflight.


I think you are being particularly picky about the words but ok, even though Ijor refers to the Dragonflight backup disks as "copy protected" I will rephrase.

"Dragonflight is speculated to write to "special format" disks as the game plays."

Better?

:D

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:17 pm

alexh wrote:
dlfrsilver wrote:
alexh wrote:Dragonflight is speculated to write to copy protected disks as the game plays.

=> which copy protection ? the copies of disks B and C are not protected (well nothing that would make a copier fails the copy).
[snip]
The *.ST format should be enhanced to support special formats. This would be the solution for games like dragonflight.


I think you are being particularly picky about the words but ok, even though Ijor refers to the Dragonflight backup disks as "copy protected" I will rephrase.

"Dragonflight is speculated to write to "special format" disks as the game plays."

Better?

:D


Indeed :) I said this because whatever a computer can write, it can copy it :)
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby IFW » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:59 pm

alexh wrote:There were three localisations of the Atari version (English, French, German) which ones do you have? I have all three.

Dragonflight for Atari ST comes with three disks (A, B & C). Two of the disks (B & C) are never used directly. The game install makes backups of these two disks to "play" disks.

The game is designed to be playable on Atari ST with a single sided disk drive. I believe that Disk A and Disk C are single sided and B is double sided where the second side contains the data on Disk C.

I remember you telling me that the Amiga versions were duplicated with a trace machine.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=518389&postcount=8

I was led to believe the Atari disks mastered using an Amiga. Is there a chance they were also duplicated using an Amiga and not a trace machine?

Do any of your Atari DF dumps contain unmodified disks? I imagine that original disks B & C should always be unmodified?


No, the disks are Trace duplicated, and all existing dumps are modified.

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:21 am

IFW wrote:
alexh wrote:There were three localisations of the Atari version (English, French, German) which ones do you have? I have all three.

Dragonflight for Atari ST comes with three disks (A, B & C). Two of the disks (B & C) are never used directly. The game install makes backups of these two disks to "play" disks.

The game is designed to be playable on Atari ST with a single sided disk drive. I believe that Disk A and Disk C are single sided and B is double sided where the second side contains the data on Disk C.

I remember you telling me that the Amiga versions were duplicated with a trace machine.

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=518389&postcount=8

I was led to believe the Atari disks mastered using an Amiga. Is there a chance they were also duplicated using an Amiga and not a trace machine?

Do any of your Atari DF dumps contain unmodified disks? I imagine that original disks B & C should always be unmodified?


No, the disks are Trace duplicated, and all existing dumps are modified.


Just one question, modified OK, but on which tracks / sector ?

What could have happened is that they either wrote the copy protection with the trace moutain duplicator, and THEN wrote the game on amiga drives.

this way you have trace duplicated disks with datas written on an amiga.

i have dragon flight english for atari ST, i'll dump it and we'll see :)
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby IFW » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:54 pm

No, they are just simply modified during play.
Disk B-C: 75.1, 79.0

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:44 pm

IFW wrote:No, they are just simply modified during play.
Disk B-C: 75.1, 79.0


that's impossible, the game requires the player to create backup disks. If you try to play with the original disks, the game detects it and refuse to proceed.
The backup disk system is therefore used because the game makes modifications during the play.

also, i have checked my original atari ST disks, and the result that came is that my copy is unmodified :)
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby Avanze » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:59 am

dlfrsilver wrote:also, i have checked my original atari ST disks, and the result that came is that my copy is unmodified :)


Is it possible for you to post those original disks, dlfrsilver?

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:20 am

dlfrsilver wrote:
IFW wrote:No, they are just simply modified during play.
Disk B-C: 75.1, 79.0

that's impossible, the game requires the player to create backup disks. If you try to play with the original disks, the game detects it and refuse to proceed.

Unlikely yes. Impossible no.

dlfrsilver wrote:i have checked my original atari ST disks, and the result that came is that my copy is unmodified :)

What tool did you use to determine the dumps you made of your original disks are unmodified?

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby IFW » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:12 am

dlfrsilver wrote:
IFW wrote:No, they are just simply modified during play.
Disk B-C: 75.1, 79.0


that's impossible, the game requires the player to create backup disks. If you try to play with the original disks, the game detects it and refuse to proceed.
The backup disk system is therefore used because the game makes modifications during the play.

also, i have checked my original atari ST disks, and the result that came is that my copy is unmodified :)


Maybe the game saves some configuration/initial setting onto the disk.
Does not matter really, the net result is that we don't have an unmodified dump.

So if your disks are really unmodified, it would be great to upload the stream files to our FTP.

Thanks :)

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:02 am

Maybe the game saves some configuration/initial setting onto the disk.
Does not matter really, the net result is that we don't have an unmodified dump.

So if your disks are really unmodified, it would be great to upload the stream files to our FTP.

Thanks :)


As said steve, the game CHECKS the disk you insert, if it detects the original disks, you can't access the game. And in the manual if my memory is right, it's said that it's required to generate backup disks.

i'll upload the stream files on the FTP :)
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Re: Dragonflight

Postby alexh » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:33 am

dlfrsilver wrote:the game CHECKS the disk you insert, if it detects the original disks, you can't access the game.

That doesn't mean that the program on the original disks cannott write to itself it write enabled does it?

Some game disks which do not write to themselves shipped without a write enable tab but all three of my ST versions of Dragonflight disk B have the tabs. They are all write-protected now but I don't know if the disks shipped that way.

I cannot explain why original disks would have modified sectors but I look forward to feedback from SPS' analysis of your stream files.

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Re: Dragonflight

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:01 am

alexh wrote:
dlfrsilver wrote:the game CHECKS the disk you insert, if it detects the original disks, you can't access the game.

That doesn't mean that the program on the original disks cannott write to itself it write enabled does it?

Some game disks which do not write to themselves shipped without a write enable tab but all three of my ST versions of Dragonflight disk B have the tabs. They are all write-protected now but I don't know if the disks shipped that way.

I cannot explain why original disks would have modified sectors but I look forward to feedback from SPS' analysis of your stream files.


that's right Alex, but if you try to launch a new game, the game loads from disk 1 first, then it asks for disk B. If disk B is the original disk, the game sees it, and the message insert DiskB in drive remains. The game only start if the backup disk is inserted, and it saves only once inside the game.

It's strange that the original is modified since the game doesn't allow that at first.
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