Games that was supposed to be good

All about ST/STE games

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Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:46 pm

Games that was supposed to be good, but you never understood why.

Such game is Goldrunner. I read plenty of reviews where Goldrunner got quite good or at least descent score. Personally i think that Goldrunner stinked big time. Boring and no gameplay. Another such game is Starglider. I never understood why this game was supposed to be great or even fun to play. Perhaps i missed something.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby nativ » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:37 pm

I'd probably recommend Starglider 2 over starglider, and maybe in mono!

It was a bit of a 'starwars' spin off if I can loosely say that.

other better games of this ilk would be Resolution 101 and maybe 'The Last Arcadian' I am sure there are more.

Afterburner was a little lackluster
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby DarkLord » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:02 pm

I loved both Starglider and Starglider 2.

Great gameplay, nice story, loved the digitized song at the start.

Perhaps you need to step back and look at these games in a
historical perspective? I mean, what else was on the market
at the time that the original Starglider was released for the
new Atari ST? :wink:
Last edited by DarkLord on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby thorsten_guenther » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:18 pm

I liked Starglider very much, as it was a) one of the few games that would run on my SM124 and b) had the right mixture of flight and fight (it is similar to Rescue on Fractalus in that respect). Once you mastered your AGAV, the game became tremendous fun (OK, it was repetitive after you learned to take out Stompers and Stargliders with your missiles, but so were most other shmups).

Goldrunner was a technical marvel when it came out (Smooth scrolling on an ST! Samples!), so I guess most people were fooled by that eye candy. Gameplay-wise it is pretty medioce, but if you compare it with other shmups of the time (Plutos, Typhoon, Hades Nebula, Jupiter Probe and the like) it looks very good - Xenon was much better, but came out a year later.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:34 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote:Another such game is Starglider. I never understood why this game was supposed to be great or even fun to play.


Because of the space whales? :-)

I have both Starglider 1 & 2. While 2 is technically better (you have a full solar system with solid shaded 3D objects and no loading waits when going from planet to planet), I actually liked version 1 more, it's a bit more hectic & arcade and wire-frame graphs are IMHO better in monochrome. One great feature of these games was their support for both color and mono.

There were few reasons why I preferred the monochome versions:
* That offers 2x larger resolution in both dimensions, which IMHO is more important for 3D games than few more colors (whereas with bitmap games colors can be used for great effects).
* I had only TV and mono monitor. Image quality on latter was superior. :-)

Btw. Atari's mono monitor was clearly better than the built-in one in Apple Macs of that time, it had both larger screen and higher refresh rate.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby CiH » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:40 pm

To defend these a bit.

Goldrunner was a very fast (vertical scrolling) shooter, which felt good for a while and it was almost like playing an arcade quality game. Of course, longevity was not a strong point.

The original Star Glider took a bit of effort to get used to, as it was literally my first exposure to mouse control for any game, but once mastered, then it began to appeal more, including the immensely satisfying moment when you got the 'command line of sight' (CLOS) guided missile with a nose camera to hit the mothership on the arse. :lol:

Star Glider 2 had a lot more in the way of plot, I played through with a cheat. That game does deserve its classic status. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that, of course some people won't get on with it, no hard feelings of course. :D

Talking of the very early days. One game which did not transfer well from Commodore 64 enjoyment in my view, was the golf sim 'Leaderboard'. The game itself had been splendidly upgraded and enhanced, but any enjoyment was killed off by the stupid fiddly dongle that had to plug into the horribly badly located joystick port to let you play the game! This was in those innocent days before "free" versions which would remove those sort of errors (cough!) were discussed.

Slightly later on, a big disappointment was 'Federation of Free Traders' (FOFT). Attempted to be an 'Elite' killer, cumbersome messy execution and offputting gameplay.

Also anything that came in a Psygnosis big box tended to add up to rather less than the sum of its parts in general...
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby FedePede04 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:27 pm

I just loved Gold Runner, could play it for hours.
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:58 am

Brattacus...Just couldn't connect with it.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:45 am

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:Brattacus...Just couldn't connect with it.


Brattacas was ruined by a horrible control system, so was Barbarian and Obliterator from Psygnosis.

Now, over to Goldrunner

Credits to Microdeal for trying something new when they released Goldrunner. My problem with Goldrunner is that i never liked the concept, move fast forward and back while trying to avoid to run into something, followed by enemies that moves as weird as you do using shots that follows you in some weird way. Return to Genesis and Goldrunner II was a bad experience for me too. I simply don't like the concept.

When i played Xenon for the first time i thought, WOW, this is what i call shoot'em up. Great graphics, sound and gameplay in one and the same game.

Why i'm not a big fan of Starglider is because of several things. I don't like the horrible control system using the right mouse button to gain speed, and it's too simplistic to be real enjoyable. I have never been a great fan of 3D shoot'em ups while i can play a good 2D shooter anytime. I didn't like Afterburner or Space Harrier either.

To play a good 3D game i would choose Mercenary, Damocles or Mercenary III anytime. ;)

Another stinker that was hyped to death before it's release was Rise of the Robots.

Intelligent game engine, incredible graphics and fun gameplay.

The game was so BAD that it was a pain to play. On my Amiga CD32 it was nessessary to turn off the shadows to even get a descent animation speed of this crap game. The fighters was boring, the moves was boring, the stages was boring and even the sound was boring, the graphics flat and the gameplay not even there.

A huge disapointment in just about every way.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby DarkLord » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:26 am

One of the biggest let-downs for me of a game that could have been, and should
have been great, was Ultima VI.

Starting with Ultima II, then through III, IV, and V, every new release was bigger
and better on the ST. Better graphics, great storyline, bigger world!

Then came Ultima VI. You would have expected the graphics to be at least as
good as Ultima V - who would think that they would take a step (or 2 or 3!)
backwards, but they did. The use of the ST's color pallette, when they converted
it from CGA or EGA, or whatever the heck it was on the PC version, was just
awful. Ugh.

So disappointing because I absolutely love this series.

The best thing about Ultima VI on the ST was that you could actually install it
on hard disk...
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:12 am

TRAILBLAZER

Trailblazer on the ST was a huge disapointment who ranged from annoying samples to unispired levels and graphics.

Trailblazer on Atari 800 was a great game that we played a lot in 2 player mode. If i remember correct Trailblazer recieved quite good scores for all the 8 bit computers, even ZX Spectrum who lacked the split screen 2 player mode. Somehow they managed to lost both the atmosphere and the fun in the ST version.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:22 am

Aaah, i forgot the most obvious game of them all.

Carrier Command was AWESOME good and recived top scores in just about every magazine. It was something completly new and contained very advanced game mechanics for it's time. To play Carrier Command was almost magic. In fact, i still play Carrier Command sometimes.

Then came Battle Command...

The expectations was very high...Okey, Battle Command wasn't exactly a bad game but it wasn't even close to the excellence of Carrier Command.

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby leglod » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:15 am

Ultimatrider motorcycle game just unplayable, yet he had received good grades in the French press video. :contract:
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:06 pm

He he, i understand what you mean by unplayable. ;)

Streetfighter recived some descent scores in the reviews.

The reality was that Streetfighter was almost unplayable. Sit down and use low kick all the time until you meet the final boss...

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby DarkLord » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:15 pm

Retrogamer_ST wrote:The reality was that Streetfighter was almost unplayable. Sit down and use low kick all the time until you meet the final boss...


You mean between the multiple disk swaps? :lol:
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby leglod » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:26 pm

Street Fighter 1 or 2 ?
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby purpleeagle01 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:06 pm

I think this is a matter of taste I like to play for the Star Command is absolutely bad graphics and sound underground but the game itself just fine.
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Retrogamer_ST » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:33 pm

@Darklord

Disk swaps was the bad thing about SF II. Now imagine the number of disks for Super Streetfighter II.

@Purpleeagle

I meant the first Streetfighter game. At least it featured animated clouds not found in the Amiga version. ;)

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Grunaki » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:48 am

Afterburner. I hate it. The arcade game was crap. The conversion of the Arcade game was OK in terms of a conversion, but crap in terms of a game.

It's totally mindless. You fly in a straight line blowing poo up. You could level this at plenty of older 2D shooters, but they're still fun when you take them in context. When you consider that Afterburner was modeled on the Space Harrier hardware, and Space Harrier at least had end-of-level bosses, it's pretty dire. It was basically made for the pneumatic cabinet hardware, and that's where all the excitement began and ended.

I know lots of people will leap to its defense. Fair enough. You're not changing my mind. :P
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby dma » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:13 am

An obvious one is ST Outrun...

A remake of that one, this would rock hard. ;)
(game logic has already been reversed : http://reassembler.blogspot.co.uk/p/can ... ngine.html )

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby nativ » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:41 am

dma wrote:An obvious one is ST Outrun...

A remake of that one, this would rock hard. ;)
(game logic has already been reversed : http://reassembler.blogspot.co.uk/p/can ... ngine.html )


kool spotted that one! asked about having a 10.4 osx version that he said he could do!
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby dma » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:50 pm

nativ wrote:kool spotted that one! asked about having a 10.4 osx version that he said he could do!

The work on this port is amazing, he's adding so much features to the original arcade game.
I mean who would imagine playing this 1986 game with true wide-screen mode (play area extended by 25%)? :)
Along 60hz mode, higher resolution sprite scaling, fixes to the original bugs (which can be set off, of course ;))...

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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby nativ » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:06 pm

@ DMA should make the Firebee and CT60! I wonder whats the lowest spec machine it would squeeze onto?
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby nativ » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:06 pm

@ DMA should make the Firebee and CT60! I wonder whats the lowest spec machine it would squeeze onto?
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Re: Games that was supposed to be good

Postby Omikronman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:34 pm

I knew Starglider from the Commodore 64 before. The ST starglider was so much better: the cockpit looked great, someone saw it in a paper magazine and told me "it´s from the Amiga", but later I looked at that picture again and below was to read "Atari ST". The ST version ran smooth and the ST had a nice digi music. I really loved it. Starglider 2 was some more impressive. It looked like one of these rare virtual reality graphics made by early supercomputers. But it was on my screen, made by my Atari. That was a real *whow!* effect for me. :-)


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