Right that the Wiki links has no big banners to it, but if one reads it is easily found.
So how do i get to the Wiki from this page? I see no link? How do I find it?? Please can you explain?
Well I found it without much issue.... problem is that no one really look hard enough for it.
So I just clicked on the FAQ button on the top right hand size of this webpage, on FAQ.... and guess what. 404 error
. So I am looking hard for it. How do I get there? I am pretty proficient at using the net, but I really cant find the link or any links or pointers of any kind.
Or they do not look hard enough for it because it is easier just to open their mouth and ask.
Speak for yourself. I always undertake an extensive search before asking questions. And never have i found the wiki. By the way, the forum is
to ask questions. That is what a Forum is for. People talk and ask questions? The FAQ and Wiki should be easy to find to answer to quick or obvious
or often asked questions. I have thought to ask many times how to find the Wiki or FAQ. Where is it?
Look around at the postings, you seen it easily like asking for <removed - may lead to flame war
Im looking around the postings right now. And I am not seeing anybody at the moment, referring people to the wiki, or faq for information, including yourself
. No one is going to mind having there info put onto the wiki. And I dont imagine a flame war, unless people just keep posting irrelevant comments just for the sake of it. So if no one even points refers to the wiki in the Forum, then there is something seriously wrong? I'd like to write some guides, and I cant even find a link to it at all! Do I have to know of it and type it in manually? Is it even submitted to Google?
On the cover page.... I like it the way it is because I cannot take long blogs like postings.
I'd like to look at the cover page. But there appears to be no browseable way to get to it. I did find it once.. more by accident. And I have made a concerted effort today to browse away from the site and search in Google specifically for "Atari Forum Wiki". Its the only way I could find it. Clearly if I had not come across this thread (we are writing on now) and found out there was in fact a Wiki (to my surprise), then I would have no idea of its existence and therefore the chances of me searching for it are guess what. Nill.
So you cant take long blogs like postings? Have you even looked at the Atari ST Quick FAQ?? http://www.atari.org/hosted/quickfaq/
I have mentioned this several times. And your response is, I cannot take long blog like postings. Have you even read my link before posting your response?
There are 4, yes four postings. 1. General Information 2. Software 3. Hardware 4. Communication
Then you click on one. It then lists sub categories on a separate page. Its a wonderful invention by a guy called Tim Berners-Lee called the internet. For example section 1 General Information tells us simple information about the ST for example, and has "relevant information" stored in this page
- (not a non-alphabetic mish mash of Links at the bottom of the page, I mean what is "Atari System Disks Archive 1" http://www.vintagecomputercafe.com/atarisystemdisks.htm .. Its not in order, it doesnt even work, and how can all the useful links be on one front page. How on earth do you find one you want.
Sureley by having articles structured in a simple, powerful and effective way is a better way to find and digest information? I mean what on earth is the point of these unsorted links at the bottom. And to be honest, if this was a complete wiki... which it is not, then there would be no room
to list every subject on the front page like this. But thats not the worst thing about it (forgetting that no one can find it, or bothers to use or mention it on the forum in answers).
Point form works for me best.... look at my web page - mostly numbered and point form.
No long blog like postings.
The worst thing about this website is the absolutely nonsencial order. Please don't take offence, but your website, even though it is linked to in at least two major articles on the Wiki covering Mint, and on the front page, but probably more, is not a tome of how to write a website. I have website too, www.thebigconsultant.com
, also I dont really know what "pint form" is, but for example:-
1. Under "Getting Started"
on our Wiki, we have the ludicrous entry "MINT Operating System"
entry. I mean, is using MINT really 'getting started'?? For example, I just met a guy who used Atari for 20 years on the forum, and has TT, Hades and the lot. Yet he is only starting to understand how to even install this. Never mind use the features.
- But when you open the section up, not only is the Easy Mint not mentioned, but there are no hyperlinks to any useful information for people, oh, apart from your website. Which co-incidentally I managed to copy quite easily with HTRACK website copier.
I mean. Another point where I get lost with your argument here. You were argueing that all the info should be on the Wiki in one of your statements. But then why link to a webpage you have clearly written on the subject, and then put it in the Wiki?? Surely it is harder to FTP upload and write HTML than to use the Wiki direct to host this information. I am confused?
2. BUT then, what about the REAL Operating System? Quite important no? Wait. Can I find anything about how to use TOS or GEM
? Yes I just got 2.06 and also I am wondering how to use "Install Application" in the Options menu and also set up some useful icons (just like the Atari TOS 2.06 User Guide http://jensriemann.macdisk.de/html/guide206/index.htm
). But.. where is this info??
- Oooph under "Hardware" ?????
- Its listed as "The Operating System of the Atari ST" and half way down the page in the wrong section, but luckily I have found it!! Yay
Luck me. Hope its useful?
... I open it up and what do I find??? Obscure information about "Line A Routines"... what? Who is this useful to? http://www.atari-forum.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Operating_System_of_the_Atari_ST
. So yes this may be useful to 1 in a hundred. Perhaps this should be in part of a section on the OS? This article may be well written, but there are thousands like this, all over the internet. And yet there is no info that we can usefully use here? (Thats why working out a contents would be best, and do that together, collaboratively).
Lets take a snippet eh? Now we come to the complex stuff. GEM, the Graphics Environment Manager, is a machine independent (runs on the IBM too) set of routines that enable the programmer to use windows, dialogs, the mouse, buttons, and sliders to interface with an end user. GEM also allows you to present complex graphics and output them to a number of different devices. It is built so that these features can be defined, accessed, and used with a relatively small number of routines. It also allows limited multitasking through desk accessories. In addition to all that, GEM allows inter-process communication and control. I said it was complex!
Even my entries into the Wiki are few sentences and then goes to point form.
Please feel free to indicate where this point form is and how it works? I am not really sure what point form is? Do you mean bullet points? I am lost here?
Just links to the websites, don't bring in contents.
Er. Where is there any up to date information for useful websites to go to?? I keep finding out new things, mainly off the forum, and members seem to have lots of interesting links, that each other do not know about.
Example. I had to browse forum to find out about a great IDE hard drive mod that is easy to make easily at home http://www.spiny.org/atari/popsel/
. More interest for me, I love CAD and 3D on Atari, yet after years I have never seen this until someone pointed out last week http://www.asterius.com/atari/cybervcr.html
whoa, all my 3D dreams. Now i can go do this again and render some ray tracing http://saberblock.blogspot.com/2010/12/atari-st-raytracing.html
. Whoa, these images are like childhood friends to me.
So none of these links are interesting or useful, or bring in contents? I would certainly ask Spiny or Antic if we can put some information or bookmarks here. I am sure not only I find things interesting, and want sometimes to find t quickly. But we cant easily replace the World Wide Web!!??
Bloody hell. So we dont bother with the web links, and we host entire worlds information in this Wiki?? Thats dedicated. Only 999,999 articles to go! Yay
So better to put in relevant hyperlinks, and therefore at least hope that the article is useful, rather than completely uninformative, out of date and useless.
Contents changes, and who is updating the wiki again?
Again, that is why you have weblinks. And to useful pages, or more than one, but also in sections, that are relevant, and in sub-catagories, and that people need. Perhaps dated.
Who updates the Wiki. Very few. But could be sorted, if more people use it.
- Why dont more use it? Good question. Try reviewing my posts here
before simply making posts quoting me, but appearing to have not even been bothered to make the effort to actually understand or respond to my points.
- I actually would like to help you and others, to make either the Wiki, or FAQ more popular. And if you are not prepared to listen to my points, then that is either ignorance, or more likely that you do not even think about what it is you are writing, but simply post for the sake of responding. Were there is no useful content to add.
- Well this annoys me, because I feel that it is important to make progress for example with the wiki, as this is important to all of us. Or to solve problems. If I personally cant do something, I will be the first to say, look, sorry cant help you. This is a skill. But it is wasting my time, and others if we simply post for the sake of arguing or say something that is ambiguous. I mean why did you say "Right that the Wiki links has no big banners to it, but if one reads it is easily found. "
.. I mean, my point is that there appear to be no links at all to it. No it has no banners (?) and how is it easily found? Let me read that again. How do I find it by reading?? I do read and I cant find it?? Is there something wrong with me? Am I missing something??
I only found it by chance. No one mentions it, and with no SEO and links, its effectively dead. No links, no users.
Now why also are you constantly knocking me down when I try to help others?? I mean the post about HTRACK http://www.httrack.com
. And you say
does it work?
I tried that before but it just didn't do as advertise.
Well, I am but an end-user of course, so enough said.
Its like, amazingly easy to use, and may be very very useful to others. Why put them off? It took me efort to find this and share it with others. I have used this tool for many years. What evidence do you have that it does not work? I doubt that you even downloaded it and tried it. Yet you then poo poo my idea to others, and with no direct evidence, or even a clue as to how to use it or having even tried it. You just paste in the web address and it does it. Bang. Website in your C:/My Websites, a full website, with everything CSS, the lot, internally linking, not broken, complete. One button. You know what I used to use this for?? Offline browsing websites on my Atari ST, for 10 years. Also in business, useful to extract data. But your comment may stop someone from trying my idea and the tool. When it works. Why? Can anyone else find a problem with it??? Why make this comment?? Can you explain what you found difficult or the error message?
With this tool, anyone could add fill websites and content to the wiki from any source, and perhaps not have to spend hours re-writing. A solution to your "who is updating the wiki" perhaps.