What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

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What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby 1st1 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:26 pm

Hello, atariforge.org is dead since a few days. So also all sub-pages are also not reachable without knowing the ip adresses. This is sad.

But the good news, http://www.dev-docs.org/ works for this ex sup page.
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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby LynXX » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:18 pm

That's great! I'm glad to see it back! Thanks to the people behind this mirror! :cheers:

However, while I really applaud the effort, part of me wonder if that's the best approach. Now we have 2 versions of the dev-docs (this one, + http://dev-docs.exxoshost.co.uk/), soon to be 3 when atariforge.org comes back on line (soon I hope!).

How do we know which one is the most up to date? Will they start differing now and have different content as new docs get added individually to each over time?

I was actually thinking of doing the same thing for the Atari Wiki that has been broken since a while: Mirror it somewhere (Content can be retrieved via the API), but I didn't want to be in this situation where we would have had 2 wikis with differing content (if we were to open the "new" one to new contributions)...

I'm not sure that's a big deal, of what a good solution could be, but that feels a bit concerning to me on the long run. Am I the only one feeling this way? :wink:

It feels to me all of this could benefit from a more "open" approach, where the content would be centrally managed perhaps using open source systems (GitHub or something?) with multiple people having access and able to contribute things. Currently most of these systems rely on the hard work of single individuals (which I commend!), but it doesn't seem like it can scale well on the long term...

It would be a shame to definitely lose these excellent resources because the people behind them moved away (which is fair enough, I myself have my share of abandoned projects :wink: ). This is perhaps an opportunity to hear other's people opinion on this topic?

Cheers,

Nico

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby czietz » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:30 pm

Nico,

dev-docs.org is not a third-party mirror, like Exxos' one -- which is indeed a bit outdated. Instead, dev-docs.org is maintained by Lonny Pursell himself. So I'd consider it the "official" site now. Only Lonny can answer what he plans to do with dev-docs.atariforge.org, should it come up again. Redirect to the new site? Keep both sites synchronized?

I also don't see any risk of the contents diverging on the different versions of the site. New documents only get added to the main site, mirrors at worst are outdated. But you'll never have the situation that file A is only on dev-docs.org while file B is only on dev-docs.exxoshost.co.uk.

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby LynXX » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:10 pm

Ah that's a relief, I'm glad to hear that! Thanks for clarifying it for me. That solves my immediate concern of things getting out of sync.

There's still the broader point of ensuring these sites and resources perdure over time when their maintainer lose interest of life gets in the way. Perhaps it's just a matter of convincing every maintainer to "go open source" then...

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby EmpireAndrew » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:15 pm

I'm producing my own site with content drawn from all these sites as I'm concerned there's too much all eggs in one basket going on.
So a more central approach would be even worse, despite the convenience being attractive.

But my site is a long way off given I'm writing my own CMS to power it but at least I've leeched a lot of content off several big Atari sites in readiness so if these sites do disappear I have a lot of it on my NAS here.

Assuming I even get it finished that is, I don't know where the time goes these days...
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1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby EmpireAndrew » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:20 pm

As an aside, if people really want to ensure materials are not lost, archive.org is your friend.
I got a lot of Atari stuff from there and have a small pile of "missing" magazine issues I bought off ebay for the purposes of scanning to fill in the blanks.
I'll put them on my own site, and archive.org, and presumably the other Atari sites will copy them off and put them on theirs too. Hopefully...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby lp » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:32 am

I can't thank Rob enough for hosting dev-docs at dev-docs.atariforge.org, however do to the location, weather, and the like it goes down way to often. I assume Rob will eventually fix the server issue (storm related), when I don't know. If he does get it back online the old url will be removed. http://www.dev-docs.org/ should be considered the new official url.

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby LynXX » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:40 am

So a more central approach would be even worse, despite the convenience being attractive.


I think I actually see it as the opposite ;)

  • Decentralized in management, as multiple people would have access and would be able to assist / fix issues if something goes wrong. For example in GitHub projects multiple people can have full administrative rights on the repository, and/or have access to deploy things in "production"
  • Actually decentralized in storage in practice: It may look like centralized if we put the content on GitHub or something like Amazon S3, but it's actually far more decentralized and reliable than having a single server managed by a single person, subject to hosting issues and life getting in the way

Archive.org is a good suggestion, I thought of it too, the problem is that it doesn't really offer a "nice" interface, it's just for storing stuff. Perhaps there's a middle ground with things stored in Archive.org, but with nice, separate sites just pointing to the right files in Archive.org (but providing additional features like search, comments, etc.)

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Re: What hapened to atariforge? dev-docs moved.

Postby EmpireAndrew » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:39 am

Yeah the latter sounds like a good idea...
1977 VCS Heavy Sixxer (Boxed)
1990 Atari 1040STE, 4MB, UltraSatan, TOS 2.06, TT Touch -> Atari SC1435 Colour CRT Monitor
1991 Atari TT030, 2/64MB, Int 8GB Gigafile SCSI2CF, TOS 3.06, CaTTamaran Accelerator -> Atari TTM195 19" Mono CRT Monitor
1993 Atari Falcon030, 14MB, Int 4GB IDE2SD, TOS 4.04 -> Atari PTC1426 Color CRT Monitor
Amiga, Mac, DOS, Newton, SGI, Sun, NeXTStation and more!


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