Atari Legend Updates or Not

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Does Atari Legend need updating

New Features
7
25%
Keep it the same & new features
10
36%
Start again with new design
8
29%
Other (please post in separate post)
3
11%
 
Total votes: 28

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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby ST Graveyard » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:37 pm

No reply from Lemon yet, think it can take awhile. I don't know, I wouldn't count too much on it. It would be cool, but Kim created the engine, I don't think he will give it away like that... Who knows ...

Anyway, Merging with Atari Mania can also be an option perhaps? I'm not the boss here, not of AL as well ... these are just ideas ...

I'll keep you all posted ...
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby Marakatti » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:40 am

ST Graveyard wrote:Anyway, Merging with Atari Mania can also be an option perhaps?

I had a quick chat with Franck about the idea. If Atari Legend decides to go that route, we're very interested to hear your ideas :)
AL certainly has the best PD/SW database section on ST. Merging with our commercial games and demo-section could indeed make the definitive ST-database.
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby ST Graveyard » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:58 pm

Hey Marakatti (and the others),

I haven't been in the scene for years so Atarimania is a bit new for me. I had a quick browse on the site and I have to say I'm very very impressed. I'm that impressed that I now feel a bit stupid for contacting Kim as it seems that Atarimania is a bit like the LemonAmiga for the ST scene. Mania seems to have a lot of similar features. I also really like the fact that you guys are following the pasti standard (always try and follow some kind of global standards, that is what I see in other scenes) and all the scans and other content just looks amazing.

That being said, I'm just one of the coders of AL, I'm not the one who should say if we merge with what site. It was just an idea. I just like the idea of my (and the other people's) old work being preserved. I mean, like being said by so many others, there is nothing attractive with a dead website. I think we should all join forces. And it is very important to have a user friendly control panel behind a website so a team can update it. Especially when one of the main creators leaves the scene (and we all have times when personal lives get in the way ;-) ).

Now, there are a few things important for me when a possible merge happens :
1) I know a lot of people have spend countless hours in filling the DB. I'm not gonna mention names because I'm afraid I will forget people, but it is important to me to merge as much of the content as possible, not only because it is cool to have as much info as possible, but also to honor the efforts of the people. Ok, one example, I know guys like Marcer have spend hours and hours of screenshot grabbing. I see AM has already a lot of them, but why not merge them as well. I mean, you can"t have to many different screenshots of a game, right? Just an idea.
2) The thing I like with game sites like AL and Lemon and which is missing at a lot of other sites are the reviews and interviews. We already have a very nice selection. I don't know if these would fit in a possible future at AtariMania but I personally would love to see my written work live on somewhere ;-) Also, interview with past coders are fun to read!

Somethings I didn't see at AM which I immediately missed (but I haven't gotten an account yet, so I could be wrong) :
- A news page. Don't know which site these days is looked into for ST news? I know AL is not updated, LGD never had any, and the news of AtariAge is more console related ... Anyway, I haven't been in the scene much the past years
- A Statistics page ... How many comments are posted in the db by users, how many games are in the db, how many registered users are there ...

Ok, just some thoughts from my part.

I don't know what the rest of the community thinks about all of this (apart from the Lemon idea :-) ... Also, I think someone should get in touch with people like Marcer, Silver Surfer, Brume, Champions2002 and so on ... Because again, I'm not the boss ... Muggy, you already replied so I guess you think this idea is doable, right? ;-)

Cheers,
Grave

PS : I have a backup of the AL data if necessary, which I would be happy to share, but keep in mind I don't have time to do much more than that ... I just wanna help the community in one way or another ...
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby atarimania » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:31 pm

Hi,

I'm the webmaster of Atarimania. The site started in 2003 with the Atari 8bit section, then the 2600 section and the ST few year ago mainly with Marakatti and Marcer. Our goal is to build the most complete Atari database for all the Atari machines :)
You can see the statistics of our database on the main page, since 2003 we "collected" in big amount of scans (>110 000) / screenshots (almost 70 000) and the database is still growing every week (see the main page for the news).

I think that it would be a great idea and a great opportunity to save all the job made with AL if we could merge your data with our database, I can work on it (it's my job).

It's already possible to add interview/review and I think that it's very important to keep them:
http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-40 ... s4353.html
http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-26 ... s6788.html
http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-40 ... s4599.html

I'm already working on new features for the ST section that should be available soon ;)

So I think that we should try it :D :D :D

Franck
(sorry for my english (I'm french))

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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby Mug UK » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:06 pm

Not long after I sold up most of my collection I remember uploading all of my scans & Pasti images to AtariMania's FTP server .. at least I think it was an FTP server (it was a few years ago now).

Will AtariMania be able to handle all of our extra data (e.g. my scanning of all 3D Construction Kit & STAC games and marking them as sub-genres?). We all (in AL) had our specialist subject areas and it would be nice to keep that all that data intact.

Would Dal be able to supply a sample data extract to see how much work is involved in a data merge?

There's *lots* of credits fir PD games (coding, graphics, sound) that were added (even when tunes were ripped from commercial titles).
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby Marakatti » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:30 pm

ST Graveyard wrote:I haven't been in the scene for years so Atarimania is a bit new for me. I had a quick browse on the site and I have to say I'm very very impressed. I'm that impressed that I now feel a bit stupid for contacting Kim as it seems that Atarimania is a bit like the LemonAmiga for the ST scene. Mania seems to have a lot of similar features. I also really like the fact that you guys are following the pasti standard (always try and follow some kind of global standards, that is what I see in other scenes) and all the scans and other content just looks amazing.

Thanks for the positive comments :) Although I have to point out that we are still in beta-stage as there are a lot of stuff missing and errors to be corrected.

Now, there are a few things important for me when a possible merge happens :
1) I know a lot of people have spend countless hours in filling the DB. I'm not gonna mention names because I'm afraid I will forget people, but it is important to me to merge as much of the content as possible, not only because it is cool to have as much info as possible, but also to honor the efforts of the people. Ok, one example, I know guys like Marcer have spend hours and hours of screenshot grabbing. I see AM has already a lot of them, but why not merge them as well. I mean, you can"t have to many different screenshots of a game, right? Just an idea.

That's very important, I agree. Having done that for some years I've learnt to respect a lot people who have put time and energy to projects like AL. It's not an easy task!
I once got all the screenshots from Marcer but they had borders on so I finally figured out it's faster to take new ones than edit borders off. But if there are borderless versions around we could include them. Only rule we have is that we don't want any cracker messages. Nothing against them, in fact without these pioneers most of the games we enjoy today would have been lost, but it fits the Pasti philosophy of preserving everything as original way as possible.

Somethings I didn't see at AM which I immediately missed (but I haven't gotten an account yet, so I could be wrong) :
- A news page. Don't know which site these days is looked into for ST news? I know AL is not updated, LGD never had any, and the news of AtariAge is more console related ... Anyway, I haven't been in the scene much the past years

This unfortunately is too time consuming at the moment for the small team. And if we do it for ST we should do it for other systems aswell. That would make the work 7 times more time consuming :(

For ST news I usually follow DHS.nu and AtariToday ( http://www.bertelmann.org/ataritoday/ )

Mug UK wrote: I remember uploading all of my scans & Pasti images to AtariMania's FTP server .. at least I think it was an FTP server (it was a few years ago now).

Yes you did, hundreds of scans :) I uploaded everything except couple of scans that were really small and couldn't be resized for proper quality.

Will AtariMania be able to handle all of our extra data (e.g. my scanning of all 3D Construction Kit & STAC games and marking them as sub-genres?). We all (in AL) had our specialist subject areas and it would be nice to keep that all that data intact.

We have done some of these. It's under "Programming Language" option. You can search various programming language options from the advanced search page http://www.atarimania.com/advanced-sear ... -_S_G.html

Not many of them listed yet but the options is there.

There's *lots* of credits fir PD games (coding, graphics, sound) that were added (even when tunes were ripped from commercial titles).

Yes it always amazed me how well it was build together. We should make sure everything is tested as well as possible. Some samples would be great so Franck could do some test runs.
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby ST Graveyard » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:17 pm

Thanks for all the info. I'm now a member of Atarimania ;-)

I contacted Silver Surfer and Brume on facebook, I'm gonna wait a bit till I get some feedback from them.

I'm gonna browse the mania site some more and I'll get back to this in the weekend. Mug has some very good points, if this project continues we should sent some sample files ... And all that detail work regarding PD games he has uploaded should definitely be preserved in one way or the other.
I also have analyses of our complete table structures Silver and myself have set up for the site. Those are readable by any programmer and could be of great help if extra programming is necessary ...
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby atarimania » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:53 pm

Hi,

Any news ???

Thanks
Franck

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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby lotek_style » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:01 pm

I was thinking quite a while about an answer here... first... I really like the idea that people "finally" start working together instead of doing a new site and a new site and a new site.

Merging AL into Atarimania surely is a huge job but if all work togehter it can be done... we also should contact Rich from LGD... read what he posted on his website:

"May 2012 - I'm looking for help to rebuild LGD using "modern" web standards :) You a capable PHP dev with some time to spare? Please get in touch!"

Maybe he would also join... or atleast support the DB with his stuff.


I am also thinking about joining AtariMania for quite a while... well I am already moderator at pouet but both platforms lack features and I don't wanna do twice the work.


Franck... I would be nice to get atleast a reply to my email to you some months ago about the merging of the party-project aswell as this site:

http://www.st.scene.free.fr/ -> I have the php database file.
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby ST Graveyard » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Franck,

Brume told me at facebook he had news for me regarding this thread, but I haven't heard from him. Anyway, I haven't forgotten you or Atarimania, I just want to hear from the other guys. I'll contact him again tomorrow and then I'll get back to you. Sorry for the wait ....

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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby troed » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:22 pm

Marakatti wrote:I once got all the screenshots from Marcer but they had borders on so I finally figured out it's faster to take new ones than edit borders off. But if there are borderless versions around we could include them.


Since I'm curious - why prefer borderless? The ST did have borders, and those games and utils that did remove them should be as visibly better in screenshots as they were using :)

(Or did I misunderstand what you were talking about completely?)

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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby Marakatti » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:34 pm

troed wrote:
Marakatti wrote:I once got all the screenshots from Marcer but they had borders on so I finally figured out it's faster to take new ones than edit borders off. But if there are borderless versions around we could include them.


Since I'm curious - why prefer borderless? The ST did have borders, and those games and utils that did remove them should be as visibly better in screenshots as they were using :)

(Or did I misunderstand what you were talking about completely?)

It's just a common thing to do nowadays. Besides the screenshot area is already small so why do big borders around it. But as you're a programmer I see your point. No borders stuff indeed looked far superior back in the day :)
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Re: Atari Legend Updates or Not

Postby ST Graveyard » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:23 pm

I don't get any replies from anyone anymore ... So as far as I'm concerned, I think a merge of the data to a site like atari mania is only for the best ... should be a cool project....
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