Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Marakatti » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:51 am

List is now updated with subcategories for slightly easier browsing:
-Retail (English language)
-Retail (Non-English language and localizations)
-Retail (USA)
-Re-releases
-Compilations, bundles and doublepacks
-EDOS

If you find errors let me know and we'll fix them.

http://www.atarimania.com/phpBB3/viewto ... 1&p=33066&
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Mug UK » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:04 pm

Modified to a Sticky to make it easier to see.
Having sold 99.9% of my 1300+ collection of originals, I'm taking a bit of a back seat on the forum. I'll still do the front-of-house admin tasks as and when they're required but, for now, I'm enjoying my Xbox 360 time too much :)

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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Marakatti » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:36 pm

Thanks :)
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Methanoid » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:17 am

Retardant pants on; Whats an EDOS title?
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:04 pm

Methanoid wrote:Retardant pants on; Whats an EDOS title?


Electronic Distribution Of Softwares. Retailers had back in the day a PC dedicated with a hard drive (containing games masters), and a special drive able to write any copy protection on disk on demand.

That was the point of this system :)
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby DarkLord » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:07 am

I can't get to the Pasti image list now, I get a 404 error.

New URL maybe? Thanks.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Methanoid » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:58 am

http://www.atarimania.com/atari_forum/v ... =8&t=17781

Obviously looking for the revised URL was a large challenge!
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby DarkLord » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:48 am

Thank you for the updated link.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Marakatti » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:56 am

Added also a link for partially missing titles.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Stefan jL » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:10 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:Electronic Distribution Of Softwares. Retailers had back in the day a PC dedicated with a hard drive (containing games masters), and a special drive able to write any copy protection on disk on demand.


Was not the "the 16 bit pocket power collection" done the same way?
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Marakatti » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:12 pm

Stefan jL wrote:
dlfrsilver wrote:Electronic Distribution Of Softwares. Retailers had back in the day a PC dedicated with a hard drive (containing games masters), and a special drive able to write any copy protection on disk on demand.


Was not the "the 16 bit pocket power collection" done the same way?

Don't think so. At least where I lived they were already boxed like any other budget games. Disk labels also looks factorymade instead of hand written ones on EDOS disks.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Stefan jL » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:56 pm

I was at a computer fair back in 1990/1 (i think) and you could buy these "pocket power" games... you picked a game and then they had a huge machine they put the disk in and i presumed they were writing the gamedisks in it... but maybe they printed the text also?

There is an text at the back of the pocket power cases wich says you are supposed to cut them open if they are security sealed... i would just guess they had the option to seal them cases also and sale them "normaly" without writing disks.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Ian » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:13 pm

With news that ipfs will be supported in the.next steem sse, do we envisage a time when no one cares about pasti images?

I don't the the sps guys are going anywhere.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:48 am

It is hardly possible that we will see ever even half of what exists in Pasti format in IPF format. Pasti has big benefit that no need for special device - ST and PC is enough for imaging. Not much people have Kryoflux, and it will not change, for sure.
Of course, it is always good to have more choices, formats. Pasti development stuck some 6 years ago, while IPF is still under development.
The real problem here is not what formats we have or what will use in future. We just don't use it in proper way. Important part of preservation is missing: verifying of images.
There are bad dumps online, and it would be good that people give more feedback and play in some kind of testing in mind.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Ian » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:20 pm

Sps verify everything. Every release has been verified with at least 1 other dump.

I have been testing some pasti images that have modified high score tables which is the sort of thing that shouldn't be happening.

Why should we care 'bob' scored 56453 on a game.

I think Batman has already got 5 versions of the one Disk version in tosec.

Now sps is not without it's [a] 's but they are different versions that were released.

I am not against pasti but the way it's being used is just as another format not anything special to preserve originals.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:07 am

I don't blame users for saving high-scores on original disks. There were even some games not playable if original was write protected (Sundog FI) .
If other parts of floppy are intact, why is problem that there are highscores ?

Pasti may be not true preservation format, but I'm sure that it has future, despite flaws and lack of support (from author in first place). Future is in emulation - after some years we will have not good working floppy drives and Atari machines.

We need to sort out really bad dumps, and not caring about irrelevant things like high scores.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Ian » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:22 pm

They are not irrelevant though which is the point. Why have 4 versions of a game, one with original score table and 3 with modified ones?

But if pasti is not a preservation format then it doesn't really matter, when it came onto the scene I had moved away from my interest in st's and was enjoying the 'dark side' with the Amiga.

So currently I think of pasti as the St version of caps as it was. If that isn't the case then we'll just carry on as is and hope sps sort something out so St games can be imaged from the St.

Anyway it matters not to me, I just'll just rename the stuff I have and work on the current tosec dats to correct errors and stuff like that, obviously I am going to be testing all pasti images I have so will eventually correctly mark all the bad dumps.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:30 pm

Pasti format and whole concept is not real preservation - it is not intended for writing copies of originals onto floppies, but for usage in emulators. But It may be considered as some kind of preservation - since you can play practically in same way as on real HW, unmodified games.

I don't think that any archive should hold 4 versions of same game, just with different highscores. It is not big deal to choose some of them. But having multiple dumps is always good - to check, compare, and may serve in case of partially damaged data on some - then can combine flawless one from diverse damaged ones. What is already done in couple cases.

Pasti is not version of caps - caps is intented for writing onto floppies too. By me, the real preservation would be if authors, copyright owners would make available unprotected versions of older SW - what unfortunately happened only in rare cases, and certainly it will never be much.

Now, I'm curious how you plan to test all Pasti images you have - and in case of Tosec there is several hundreds, I guess ?
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Ian » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:49 pm

There's well over a 1000 images in tosec plus about 2 to 3 hundred more to rename. Testing is a bit of a ball ache, but it will be done. Not a complete play through because I ain't that good at games but certainly making sure at least the first level loads and it isn't corrupt like crazy cars 2
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:56 pm

Well, that would be my point - playing some levels of game is still not enough. Errors may appear in later stages. Or even at final stage - where sometimes is some additional protection too. The problem with Pasti is that it can not determine in many cases is some CRC error protection or damaged sector. If it is CRC error, then game may crash,work badly or there will be graphic/diverse errors. It was case for instance with STX of Kid Gloves posted here - somewhere at level 4 graphic had corruptions because couple sectors were not readen correct. And this is where Kryoflux is certainly in advance. Although, I'm not sure that their sophisticated SW can really determine in exactly all cases reading errors. Another possible problems with Pasti are delayed protections activating at later stages - combined with not enough tolerant detection in game, where it can detect original as copy because some track imaging was not made as they expected.
All in all, without knowing details of some imaging format, and it's possible errors, we can not perform validation without thorough playing - what is of course too time consuming. Then, there are manual protections, and if you don't have copy of it, you need someone to crack game.

So, the real problem here is how to coordinate validation of images, how to spread informations about formats, possible problems. What currently goes, and what was in past too is that some people start some project, collect images, and then publish them. Usually with minimal testings. The result is that bad images just drag over diverse archives. So, there are numerous bad images in GameBase ST for instance. Not to mention cracks - not that there are just some bad, incomplete cracks, but I saw even corrupted ZIP files and similar.

All this is huge task, and can success only if many people will do testings, in proper way. Validation of Pasti images was planned right at start of it - look in Pasti txt. files attached. But as many other good and necessary initiatives it failed. And I think that only chances that something like will success is much better support from people with chance/ability to motivate masses. + better cowork between people dealing with. So, I think that you should contact Marakatti and exchange some experiences. Maybe to start some initiative for motivate people that combine playing with testing .... I think that it is the hardest part - with people is always harder than with technik.
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:28 pm

hello, i have uploaded some rare educative programs from generation 5 (french publisher) in the pasti image zone of the forum :)
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby Marakatti » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:51 am

dlfrsilver wrote:hello, i have uploaded some rare educative programs from generation 5 (french publisher) in the pasti image zone of the forum :)

Many thanks again :) I'll take a look at them when I find some free time. Might take a week or two as free time is somewhat a luxury for me at the moment :(

AtariZoll: You have many good points there. Unfortunately I don't have time to play games anymore so from now on Pasti-images are just checked that they run. So if there's any volunteer who likes to keep up adventuring and try to complete all the games please do so.

I'll continue to add contributions once or twice a month as I've been basically only active member left on ST-section for over a year now doing 99.8% of all the work. Right now my time doesn't allow more testing so STX-images on Atarimania are now offered "as is".

I know this sounds a bit negative and ruins the whole concept of preservation but it seems it would have been quite impossible with Pasti anyway. In it's current state it really isn't the ultimate solution and without any further development it makes me sometimes wonder why bother at all...

But please continue to send Pasti-images and everything else too, I'll ofcourse upload everything that boots. I won't give up but from now on I leave the images testing for the people who make the images and to people who have enough free time to do so. It just makes much more sense in building and correcting the database and adding the scans for now :)
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Re: Atarimania missing PASTI-dumps masterlist

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:18 pm

Pasti is still very useful, despite it's flaws and lack of support. Good/bad ratio is over 95%, so it is certainly worth to make dump. Even if it may decrease, as floppies getting older and older. More images may be good for composing flawless one from multiple sources - what I did already in couple cases.
Unfortunately, another format, IPF seems as not much perspective, despite all good characteristics. Kryoflux team does not seems to will make conversion to IPF of sent dumps soon - did nothing over a year with images sent by DrCoolZic :?
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