Atari TT030 and system V

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arf
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby arf » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:57 pm

leech wrote:Though one would think part of that might be due to memory swapping? Back when I first started using Linux, I think I had 32mb of RAM and it swapped a lot once I started up a few applications, which of course slows everything to a crawl.


It is not the swapping. The ~5 MIPS of a TT isn’t a huge amount of computing power.

I’ve got a 68040/33 (about 20-30 MIPS) with 128 MB RAM running with A/UX 3. The A/UX itself is quick & fast, but don’t even think of opening a X11 session to a modern computer and run something more advanced than xbiff, xclock and xeyes over X11 on that remote computer. Again, the computing is done on the modern machine, the 68040 only needs to the X11 drawing locally. 'nedit' is okay, but LibreOffice? Firefox? Chromium? Opera? Forget it. Painfully slow.

Why? It seems these modern software doesn’t really use X11 drawing primitives, but essentially implement their own drawing and then bitblt. Which means, the 680x0 receives near-full screen size huuuge bitmaps for every scroll line. Yaaawn.

Even faster MIPS-based X11 hardware accelerated terminals (HP Envizex II and similar) are basically unusable for such modern software.

But as tenox said, using a 680x0 as a 'modern' UNIX workstation is some (power of n) too small. Heck, Firefox is painfully slow on a Pentium II/300. And that CPU crushes the 68060 easily.

You may run what was up-to-date back then, and that’s incredible cool. Mathematica, Framemaker, gnuplot, LaTeX, dot/graphviz, elm, pine, tr, tin, all that.

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leech
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:05 pm

I wasn't thinking anything much beyond some terminals, bash and maybe python. Though I should learn Go at somepoint. Let's port Cowsay! I pointed that out to a coworker during a video conference much to the detriment of his concentration toward what people were saying. Ha!
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:50 am

leech wrote:Yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking. Though one would think part of that might be due to memory swapping? Back when I first started using Linux, I think I had 32mb of RAM and it swapped a lot once I started up a few applications, which of course slows everything to a crawl.


I think RAM and swap is least of an issue. My TT has 256MB RAM. Slow SCSI may have something to do with it, but mostly it's just slow CPU. We are used to snappy software written in assembly or low level C on TOS. Generic Unix is not that optimized unfortunately. It's usable but doesn't make a nice workstation in modern day terms.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Noth » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:49 am

So Tenox, what did those floppies from Richard yield as far as system updates to the OS? Nice to see there's a libXm floppy for Motif, since that's missing on both Mark & Richard's HDD images for some reason. Since various m68k System 4 Release 5 ports are binary compatible ( AMIX and Atari Unix CLI binaries are interchangeable so long as the libs are present)

For people fantasising about using a browser in ASV, as pointed out earlier the only usuable solution is to have Web Render Proxy running on an another machine that acts as a proxy and renders webpages to GIF which is fast to render on old systems. No need for remote X11 sessions or the like (even if they do work usually).


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