Atari TT030 and system V

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tenox
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:05 pm

TXG/MNX wrote:Thanx i will get me a scsi2sd first but is it really slower when ultra sd carts are used?


Yes apparently speed of SCSI2SD is not related to speed of an SD card used. It's to do with a slow chip that does the work. You get about 1.4 MB/s from it where the SCSI bus and a good HDD can do 10 MB/s.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Seg » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:38 am

tenox wrote:You wanted more screenshots here they come...

3.png

4.png

5.png



Wow, I'm impressed by the GUI admin tools! Those put ASV ahead of most Linux distributions for a good 10 years after ASV's own death! :lol:

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby TXG/MNX » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:50 am

tenox wrote:
TXG/MNX wrote:Thanx i will get me a scsi2sd first but is it really slower when ultra sd carts are used?


Yes apparently speed of SCSI2SD is not related to speed of an SD card used. It's to do with a slow chip that does the work. You get about 1.4 MB/s from it where the SCSI bus and a good HDD can do 10 MB/s.


That's to bad it looked so good. Best to use an SCSI2IDE convertor then with CF or is harddisk better ?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby frank.lukas » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:00 am

tenox wrote:... you get about 1.4 MB/s from it where the SCSI bus and a good HDD can do 10 MB/s.


The limit at the Atari TT SCSI Bus is 2MB/s max ...

I use the CF Monster SCSI Adapter (eBay item number:261619438020) or a fast 68pin SCSI HD.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:45 pm

frank.lukas wrote:
tenox wrote:... you get about 1.4 MB/s from it where the SCSI bus and a good HDD can do 10 MB/s.


The limit at the Atari TT SCSI Bus is 2MB/s max ...

I use the CF Monster SCSI Adapter (eBay item number:261619438020) or a fast 68pin SCSI HD.


Is it? I've thought that it can do more than that? So maybe SCSI2SD is sufficient.

BTW Aztec Monster doesn't work with ASV. I get a SCSI SPC error during boot.

I get the same issue with Acard, Yamaha and IO-DATA bridges as well. Only SCSI2SD works.

Screenshot: download/file.php?id=22316

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby TXG/MNX » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:20 pm

I just got a cosmosex want to try to use that. How can I put the image on sd must i just cpy it or are there prepare steps i need to take.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:47 pm

TXG/MNX wrote:I just got a cosmosex want to try to use that. How can I put the image on sd must i just cpy it or are there prepare steps i need to take.


I'm pretty sure that CosmosEx is ACSI instead of SCSI. This won't work with ASV.

As for putting image to the SD card, on Linux you dd it to the card. See what device the SD card appears as and dd if=richard.img of=/dev/sdXXX.

On Windows use something like WinHex to "restore image".

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby TXG/MNX » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:59 pm

Hi ok i will test it can i setup my harddisk dualboot or is my system dedicated to run this unix and must i swap hdd to boot other stuff ?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:12 pm

tenox wrote:Richard's image suffered from a similar problem and I had to spend a considerable amount of time extending and re-arranging the file systems.

How did you do that? I never had the patience to learn deal with the filesystem utilities myself...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:37 am

alexb wrote:
tenox wrote:Richard's image suffered from a similar problem and I had to spend a considerable amount of time extending and re-arranging the file systems.

How did you do that? I never had the patience to learn deal with the filesystem utilities myself...


I actually did it the hard way resizing existing partitions from single user mode. Now I've got a second SCSI2SD so I plan hook it up on another SCSI ID as a second disk and do it properly without affecting a live system. I will publish the steps and the final image once I complete the process.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:24 pm

tenox wrote:I actually did it the hard way resizing existing partitions from single user mode. Now I've got a second SCSI2SD so I plan hook it up on another SCSI ID as a second disk and do it properly without affecting a live system. I will publish the steps and the final image once I complete the process.

Ah, great! I'm currently waiting for the SCSI2SD to be orderable again anyway. I think I'll need a couple of those...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:08 am

Slow progress (now running off a SCSI2SD)...

Image

I remember someone telling me that he managed to build a newer X11 release for ASV back in the days... Not shure I'll bring up the patience to wait for the compiler on that, though ;)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:03 pm

tenox wrote:I actually did it the hard way resizing existing partitions from single user mode. Now I've got a second SCSI2SD so I plan hook it up on another SCSI ID as a second disk and do it properly without affecting a live system.

Btw., with recent SCSI2SD firmware you can define up to four SCSI IDs on different areas of the same card.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:32 am

alexb wrote:Btw., with recent SCSI2SD firmware you can define up to four SCSI IDs on different areas of the same card.


Seriously? That's awesome! Does it also support larger cards like SDHC? That would help a lot with constructing a larger file system.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:28 pm

tenox wrote:
alexb wrote:Btw., with recent SCSI2SD firmware you can define up to four SCSI IDs on different areas of the same card.

Seriously? That's awesome! Does it also support larger cards like SDHC? That would help a lot with constructing a larger file system.

Biggest card I have in a SCSI2SD is 16GB. Sliced into four SCSI IDs, 4GB each.

The 4GB card I currently use with the TT looks like this on NetBSD/atari:

Code: Select all

sd0 at scsibus0 target 0 lun 0: <codesrc, SCSI2SD, 4.0> disk fixed
sd0: 520 MB, 66 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 1066254 sectors
sd1 at scsibus0 target 1 lun 0: <codesrc, SCSI2SD, 4.0> disk fixed
sd1: 324 MB, 41 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 665154 sectors
sd2 at scsibus0 target 2 lun 0: <codesrc, SCSI2SD, 4.0> disk fixed
sd2: 507 MB, 64 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 1039329 sectors
sd3 at scsibus0 target 3 lun 0: <codesrc, SCSI2SD, 4.0> disk fixed
sd3: 2359 MB, 300 cyl, 255 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 4832460 sectors

It really seems hideously slow, under NetBSD/atari I get something like this:

Code: Select all

pterm0# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd3c bs=1048576 count=10
10+0 records in
10+0 records out
10485760 bytes transferred in 62.020 secs (169070 bytes/sec)
pterm0# dd if=/dev/sd3c of=/dev/null bs=1048576 count=10
10+0 records in
10+0 records out
10485760 bytes transferred in 35.590 secs (294626 bytes/sec)

(Probably should have used /dev/rsd3c, but I don't think it matters much here...)

We're both talking about the codesrc thing, right? Current Firmware and tools are here: http://www.codesrc.com/files/scsi2sd/v4.1/

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:09 am

alexb wrote:It really seems hideously slow, under NetBSD/atari I get something like this:

We're both talking about the codesrc thing, right? Current Firmware and tools are here: http://www.codesrc.com/files/scsi2sd/v4.1/


Yeah that's true. I get about 1.5 MB/s on codesrc. I have been talking a lot about it with the author. It's impossible to get a higher speed by just upgrading firmware. This is limit of how fast his chip can talk to the SD card. Hey may redesign it in future around different chip. Maybe FPGA.

The problem is that TT SCSI bus is not much faster than this, only about 1.8 MB/s. There is another topic on the forum discussing this. So generally, provided that you have good termination, cabling, etc. you are never going to go any faster than this due to speed of TT SCSI. Theoretically if someone did another SCSI interface or maybe fast IDE a different driver could be written for ASV to use it.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Fri May 01, 2015 6:42 pm

Trying to prepare a new disk with /sbin/partinit - seems the tool really has a problem with large disks. I couldn't create an ASV disklabel on a 2.5G SCSI2SD disk (error writing sector 0). No such problem on a 1G disk.

The "new disk" tool /usr/local/sbin/X11/newd actually creates a shell script that executes a list of commands generated from the GUI settings.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Fri May 01, 2015 6:49 pm

tenox wrote:The problem is that TT SCSI bus is not much faster than this, only about 1.8 MB/s. There is another topic on the forum discussing this.

Yeah, I've seen that... But that's barely 300k/sec up there.

Btw, there's an updated firmware - it seems if you run a version between 4.1.1 and 4.2.2, anything but the default configuration is broken. (4.2.3 is available and works, but still identifies itself as 4.2.2 after the upgrade. There's probably going to be another update with corrected version number soon-ish.)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Sat May 02, 2015 12:57 pm

Oh hey, asv-mark contains an /UPDATE-1.1-06 directory with update files and install scripts... I'll try to apply that to the richard image, which seems like a much more clean install overall.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Sat May 02, 2015 9:46 pm

tenox wrote:I actually did it the hard way resizing existing partitions from single user mode.

Did you manage to make a new disk bootable? I've played with partinit to install rootsector and bootsector, but when I try to boot from the device, the kernel is being loaded, and in the end booting aborts with the dreaded parity errors and "vfs_mountroot: no root filesystem".

When I check the filesystems on that device from a booted system, everything is fine...

Oh, ok - just noticed, when I boot a kernel from the original device and use the new root filesystem from the boot: prompt with hd(0,0)unix -R(3,0,1), I can actually boot into my new system. But then it breaks because I had the fabulous idea of splitting off a dedicated /usr filesystem and that doesn't really seem supported - all kind of things fall over, and I can't even manually mount it from maintenance mode...

Well, I guess that means restarting from scratch when I have another day to tinker with this stuff...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mikro » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:30 pm

Richard wrote:Hey guys,

I also have a pile of ASV related floppys that came from Ataris ASV dev group, all labelled with interesting things (no installation floppys though). I will image these and make them available (possibly send them to mikro to host all ASV related stuff in the same place?), if anyone is interested?

Cheers,

Richard.

Btw what happened to these? Did you manage to image them?

Also Markus, any chance to convince you to release your ASV disk backups / floppies? ;-)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:29 am

mikro wrote:
Richard wrote:Hey guys,

I also have a pile of ASV related floppys that came from Ataris ASV dev group, all labelled with interesting things (no installation floppys though). I will image these and make them available (possibly send them to mikro to host all ASV related stuff in the same place?), if anyone is interested?

Cheers,

Richard.

Btw what happened to these? Did you manage to image them?

Also Markus, any chance to convince you to release your ASV disk backups / floppies? ;-)


I don't think RIchard is reading the forum. Ask Dal to email him. I did regarding the exact HDD make and model he used.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:54 am

Email sent.
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby jvas » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:16 pm

Has this book a value these days?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:09 am

Possibly.. Scan it :)

BTW regarding books, Atari System V Developer's Guide notoriously references several AT&T System V Release 4 guides.
I have found and scanned these:

AT&T System V Release 4 System Administrators Guide
AT&T System V Release 4 System Administrators Reference Manual
AT&T System V Release 4 Users Reference Manual
AT&T System V Release 4 Network Users and Administrators Guide

http://www.tenox.net/docs/


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