Atari TT030 and system V

Hardware, coding, music, graphic and various applications

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

User avatar
tenox
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:08 am

viking272 wrote:I'm guessing the screen hardware (19" ECL screen needed at 1280x960?)


I'm working on ECL to VGA adapter.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:14 am

viking272 wrote:Obviously it clearly states the use of a TT030, but what would stop it from working on a Falcon?

It's hardware. I've tested SYSV years ago on the Falcon, it doesn't even pass the early boot routines. If it would work, I suppose it would be way too slow. Needs quite some passion and patience to use it on a TT already...

viking272 wrote:I'm guessing the screen hardware (19" ECL screen needed at 1280x960?)

To my surprise ASV Unix does work (except X11) flawlessly in VGA screen resolution on a TT (console mode only). I guess it's using ROM routines for console output?

So if you want to give it a try, just disable X11 (or write/port a VGA X11 driver ;)).

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:35 am

viking272 wrote:No networking via VME...

I think I still have a slip ethernet driver somewhere I once ported. Very slow, but working.

chance227
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby chance227 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:13 pm

Hi there Viking272,

""Obviously it clearly states the use of a TT030, but what would stop it from working on a Falcon?
I'm guessing the screen hardware (19" ECL screen needed at 1280x960?)
Memory and memory board recognition?
No networking via VME..."""

I had a chat with one of the guys that originally ported this system years ago (Alan) and there was some testing done in one of the universities in the UK that they were planning or succeeded in networking there research machines together with both TT030s and Falcons, I can't remember the details now as it was awhile ago I would have to go through my emails 10-12 years ago to find the details, but I remember during the phone call they had just THROWN OUT the last falcon into the rubbish a week earlier. It appears I was a week too late in picking up a Falcon in working order.
I don't think the memory or memory boards would be an issue, as 14 meg on a falcon should be more than enough. As to the video and networking, I think some of you younger lads could come up with something to get around that?? Man I hated looking at a desktop in Monochrome, I remember running XT machines on green and orange monitors back in the early to mid 80s, and was overwhelmed when CGA and EGA monitors were introduced, now I am showing my age.

Has anyone out there ran ASV SVR4 on a LCD or LED? that can emulate a (19" ECL screen at 1280x960?)

My 2 cents worth for tonight!! time for bed

regards Chance227

alexb
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:06 pm

Wow, having the docs is great news, thanks for that!

Unfortunately, I'm currently stuck (again) - it seems ASV can't handle drives around 2GB - maybe it has inherited the old 1GB ACSI limitation. And I don't have any working SCSI drives with less than 1GB left. Maybe time to finally buy a Gigafile and go searching for small SD cards...

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:54 pm

alexb wrote:Wow, having the docs is great news, thanks for that!

Unfortunately, I'm currently stuck (again) - it seems ASV can't handle drives around 2GB - maybe it has inherited the old 1GB ACSI limitation. And I don't have any working SCSI drives with less than 1GB left. Maybe time to finally buy a Gigafile and go searching for small SD cards...


It does, be assured. I have it running (well) on an IBM Deskstar 309170 - a 9 Gb drive as far as I remember.

I don't remember exactly, but I think the installation routine (boot from floppy, install from tape) needed to be tweaked somehow, however.

User avatar
wbyte
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Sofia/Bulgaria

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:45 pm

Installation media??? Didn't know it exist.
But for sure there will be a problem with hdd > 2GB
during installation similar to installing of motorola's sysv68k or sysv88k, apple's a/ux etc.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:28 am

wbyte wrote:Installation media??? Didn't know it exist.


When you got your TT back from Atari (they insisted to send it in when you purchased ASV), it came with a set of (I think 3) QIC150 tapes and a floppy that booted a minimal Unix into a rudimentary, console based install routine. If I remember right, that one had problems partitioning a large drive but was happy if you provided a preformatted ASV partition at the start of the disk small enough to not cause partitioning getting into trouble.
There was also a set of upgrade tapes to ASV 1.02 later.
Last edited by mfro on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:38 am

.

(sorry, double post)

User avatar
wbyte
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Sofia/Bulgaria

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:53 am

Do you think the UE12(richard's image) is version 1.02 or probably 1.2 ?
The documentation is about version UE10 - probably 1.0 and mark's image is 1.1
So at least three different versions exist.
I hope the installation media(floppy + QIC tapes) didn't vanished.
Last edited by wbyte on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

alexb
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:53 am

mfro wrote:
alexb wrote:Unfortunately, I'm currently stuck (again) - it seems ASV can't handle drives around 2GB - maybe it has inherited the old 1GB ACSI limitation. And I don't have any working SCSI drives with less than 1GB left.

It does, be assured. I have it running (well) on an IBM Deskstar 309170 - a 9 Gb drive as far as I remember.

Oh, good, thanks for that info. Must be something else wrong then with my setup.

User avatar
tenox
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:21 am

mfro wrote:When you got your TT back from Atari (they insisted to send it in when you purchased ASV), it came with a set of (I think 3) QIC150 tapes and a floppy that booted a minimal Unix into a rudimentary, console based install routine. If I remember right, that one had problems partitioning a large drive but was happy if you provided a preformatted ASV partition at the start of the disk small enough to not cause partitioning getting into trouble.
There was also a set of upgrade tapes to ASV 1.02 later.


And the tapes are... where right now?

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:13 am

tenox wrote:And the tapes are... where right now?


Attic. Unfortunately, at least one of them isn't readable anymore (with my tape drive, that is). They seem to be merely historic value.
I have several image copies of the disk contents, however.

chance227
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby chance227 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:51 am

AlexB

I have 2 drives running ASV SVR4 from the same image.
1 2.1 seagate ID=0
1 9.1 seagate ID=0

Check your termination in the SCSI chain and also on the Motherboard.
Also make sure you have Parity turned OFF

Mfro,

have you tried running the tapes on another tape drive? try this link, it may be of some use to you.
http://defianttech.com/2013/03/12/recov ... ase-study/

or something else in another forum!

Quote:
The problem with the cartridge tapes is the internal elastic drive belt. This belt stretches over time. It eventually becomes so loose that the magnetic tape will unspool within the cartridge. It is very hard to recover a tape once that happens. If you have an old cartridge tape that you want to read, DON'T put it into a tape drive (unless it is less than 10 or 15 years old). Replace the elastic drive belt within the cartrdige with a new belt. You can get a replacement belt from a new QIC tape cartridge (which are still being made). Please let us know if you find a way to source the belts by themselves. Most tapes can be "saved" (even older tapes) by replacing the drive belt.

My 2 cents worth for today.
chance227

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:31 pm

chance227 wrote:Mfro,

have you tried running the tapes on another tape drive? try this link, it may be of some use to you.
http://defianttech.com/2013/03/12/recov ... ase-study/


Thanks a lot for the advice, but I'm afraid that specific tape is dead as a doornail since it once caught some rain during a thunderstorm through a window carelessly left open.

Ferric oxide is nothing else but rust...

User avatar
wbyte
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Sofia/Bulgaria

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:06 pm

mfro wrote:
tenox wrote:And the tapes are... where right now?


Attic. Unfortunately, at least one of them isn't readable anymore (with my tape drive, that is). They seem to be merely historic value.
I have several image copies of the disk contents, however.


Did you manage to backup them, if not could you make dd images + take a pictures of all of them?
I think we could save some information from the dead tape if the whole magnetic stripe is not damaged.

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:18 pm

wbyte wrote:Did you manage to backup them, if not could you make dd images + take a pictures of all of them?
I think we could save some information from the dead tape if the whole magnetic stripe is not damaged.


I have dd'd everything that was readable (which split the - I think originally separated into 3 files - tape image into 5). I don't know the amount of data that's missing from the damaged tape section. Already tried to just "glue" the split parts together which doesn't work.

Pictures aren't a problem. I also have a number of copies of the installed hd image so there isn't too much lost.

There is somebody on the German forum who apparently owns a good working set of tapes. I will ask if he could supply a copy.

User avatar
wbyte
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Sofia/Bulgaria

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:46 pm

Ok, Good news! Alex solution with fsck give results:
# fsck -F ufs -o b=32 /dev/rdsk/c3d0s1
Alternate super block location: 32
** /dev/rdsk/c3d0s1
** Last Mounted on
** Phase 1 - Check Blocks and Sizes
** Phase 2 - Check Pathnames
** Phase 3 - Check Connectivity
** Phase 4 - Check Reference Counts
** Phase 5 - Check Cyl groups
SUMMARY INFORMATION BAD
SALVAGE? Y

6007 files, 54356 used, 22839 free (535 frags, 2788 blocks, 0.7% fragmentation)

***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED *****
#


The Mark's image is working now.
It's version 1.1-06 and switchs you directly into console login.
Let's hope this image will work with RIebl. http://atariunix.com/hdd_images/

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:07 pm

As you were asking for pictures:

NMS_0173.JPG

NMS_0174.JPG

Apparently, my memory faded. There were only two tapes in the set, but there were several supplemental floppies:

NMS_0176.JPG


Before more people ask: I currently do not plan to sell any of these. I'd rather keep them (for mainly nostalgic reasons). Hope you can accept that. If I ever decide otherways, I promise to contact people in the order they contacted me.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tenox
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 335
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, California

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:25 am

How about I'll cover the cost to ship them to the Computer History Museum in California for data recovery and then back to you?

User avatar
mfro
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 660
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am
Location: SW Germany

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:43 am

tenox wrote:How about I'll cover the cost to ship them to the Computer History Museum in California for data recovery and then back to you?


I will think about it. Promised.


Btw. I've digged out some old notes when I was playing with ASV. If people want to peek into the ASV images supplied above and do not have a TT, but a Linux computer, they can easily do so: Linux is perfectly able to mount the image:

Code: Select all

losetup -o 102400 /dev/loop0 <asv_image>
mkdir -p /mnt/asv_root
mount -t ufs -oro,ufstype=sun /dev/loop0 /mnt/asv_root


Other partitions cannot be mounted (I suppose the image isn't properly fschk'd and Linux has no tools to do so on ASV filesystems). Sector offsets (*512 for losetup) seem to start at 200, 7000, 20568, 27352.
Also, the ufs fs driver is compiled for ro mounts only (at least in Ubuntu). Nevertheless it can write to UFS filesystems if you recompile it.

Partitions are /root, /stand, /var and /home.

You cannot mount the /stand (boot) partition (since its bfs formatted - no driver available for Linux) and it obviously makes no sense to try and mount the swap slice.

You'll need to take care of symbolic links - many of them will point into your host filesystem so better check twice.

alexb
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:25 am

mfro wrote:
tenox wrote:How about I'll cover the cost to ship them to the Computer History Museum in California for data recovery and then back to you?

I will think about it. Promised.

Heh - I have that sort of installation tapes with SunOS 4 for sun3 (m68k) boxes. Been a long time since I touched those.

mfro wrote:Other partitions cannot be mounted (I suppose the image isn't properly fschk'd and Linux has no tools to do so on ASV filesystems). Sector offsets (*512 for losetup) seem to start at 200, 7000, 20568, 27352.

At least on the asv-richard image, I was able to mount other partitions too - one at offset=139264000 (272000), and one at offset=149504000 (292000). Maybe it has a slightly different layout from your system?

I have started collecting notes on my wiki (nothing new there for anyone reading this thread) a few weeks ago after toying with the thing on and off over a couple of years.

alexb
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby alexb » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:41 am

chance227 wrote:Check your termination in the SCSI chain and also on the Motherboard.
Also make sure you have Parity turned OFF

Yeah, done that. But I'm currently surrounded by dead or dying SCSI drives, so maybe the last I tried was just broken too (although it worked when I dd'ed the image over using NetBSD/atari booted from another disk).

User avatar
wbyte
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:18 pm
Location: Sofia/Bulgaria

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:06 pm

Could someone with Riebl card test the network with fixed marks image http://atariunix.com/hdd_images/asv-mark-fixed.tar.bz2 ?

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1183
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mikro » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:59 pm

It's amazing to see there's progress with those images, guys. So it was good idea to dd/publish them after all :)

Btw tenox, too bad I realized only now that you're located in Sunnyvale, I was there in September-October last year, would have been cool to hang out with a local Atari dude (in the Atari Mekka! ;-))


Social Media

     

Return to “Professionals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest